[Rose808]

Hi,

My husband and I are currently matched with a daughter her name is Jasmine. She is 5 years old and from TX. We are from IN. She has an older sister who is 10, we are hoping to adopt her eventually, when they tried to explain to her about what was happening (adoption) she didn't handle the news as well as they had hoped she would. She has been put in a residential treatment facility to work with her one on one. So we are very hopeful to eventually be able to adopt her when she is ready.

Currently we are awaiting the background information on Jasmine. Then we are to decide if we want to continue with Jasmine or if there is something in her background that we feel we cannot handle. We do know that Jasmine has been diagnosed as having Reactive Attachment Disorder and Overanxious Disorder of Childhood. We were told that Jasmine is able to form bonds with others though. We were told that she has formed bonds with her foster family.

While we are in this waiting phase we are reading up on these disorders and helpful ways to parent a child with these disorders. We have a stack of books that we are working on reading that are based on adopting older children and parenting children with disorders such as RAD and ADHD. I am currently reading, Raising Adopted Children: A Manual for the Adoptive Parents by Lois Ruskan Melina. We are trying to get as much information as we possibly can. We would greatly appreciate any sites or books that anyone has found useful for their families.


We are also awaiting our classes to start they start on Jan. 29th. We were not told when we got our home study that we had to take 23 hours of classes in order to adopt an older child so that has slowed things down a little for us.

I should also mention that Jasmine is currently in therapy and we are looking into a therapist in our area that will not only continue her therapy but also counsel us as a family.

I look forward to getting to know members on this board and learning as much as I can from you!

I'm sure that I will have tons of questions!

[lucyjoy]

Children with RAD do not form bonds with people. However, social workers often think they do because the child cons the worker into thinking they have a bond with them. If the child has been diagnosed RAD, find the professional who made the diagnosis and whoever is doing the treatment and talk to them.
Also, if she managed any long term foster placements, they can give you information. Kids with RAD often behave well in facilities, so I wouldn't consider much of what she does there.
Sorry to sound negative, but if you don't think RAD is something you wish to handle, don't take this child.

That being said, with total change from normal to theraputic parenting and the right therapy and reparenting, the child's chances for healing at this age are good. After age 7, it becomes more difficult, but many children do still heal.

www.radzebra.org www.attachment.org are good places to find resources and information.

[Rose808]

Thank you for reply! Thank you as well for the recommended websites! We read Nancy's story and are compelled to continue forward with Jasmine, we will know for sure once we get her background papers and read over them. We are not scared by the fact that she has RAD we actually feel like maybe this is ment to be, maybe this is what God intended for us...to help this child. We feel we have a small advantage as she will be an only child for now and that will allow us the one on one that she needs. We are extremely interested in finding out as much as we can about Theraputic parenting, anything that will help us!

Thank you again,

I'm sure that I will have lots of questions in the not so short future!

[whoownsthis]

Rose808,
Be sure to find an attachment therapist before Jasmine is placed with you so that you're ready.

We're also from Indiana, and I spoke with Rick Sudsberry (http://www.saccc.com/index.html) who is 30 minutes west of Indy to find out what kind of therapy his clinic does, how much it costs, etc.

He recommended that with attachment disordered children, you give them 1 or 2 months (from the time they are placed in your home) before you start keeping track of their behaviors and compare them to the typical RAD symptoms. Those first few weeks the children are generally well-behaved, charming, etc. Once they start to feel comfortable and realize that they won't be leaving, their true attachment-disordered self begins to emerge.

The thing is, Sudsberry & Assoc. doesn't take any insurance. Instead, parents pay them directly, and then submit the receipt to their insurance for reimbursement. So be sure to negotiate reimbursement for non-Medicaid-covered therapy!!! (I need to remember this, too.) If you have insurance that allows you to see "out-of-network" providers, they will reimburse you for some or all of the bill. (Our insurance is an HMO, so we don't get any coverage for out-of-network providers. Hmpf!) Also remember that unless you complete the adoption in a Texas court, Indiana usually makes you keep the child in your home under temporary guardianship (foster care) for at least 6 months, while you receive foster care payments from the placing state (Texas) OR from the Indiana ICPC (Interstate compact something for interstate adoptions) until you can go to court and officially adopt your child.

What this means is that your own health insurance will probably not cover Jasmine UNTIL you get that official adoption decree. (At least ours won't). You'll want to find out if your insurance will cover her as soon as she's placed in your home, or if her only coverage is her Medicaid card for those 6 months. Your agency should be able to recommend a pediatrician and a dentist who take Medicaid, but I haven't had any luck getting recommendations for an attachment therapist. If Jasmine is diagnosed with RAD, you will definitely want to find a licensed, experienced attachment therapist. Talk therapy and play therapy just won't work for children with RAD. ...And be sure that the therapist does not ask you to leave the room (unless you can watch on closed circuit television in an adjoining room). A therapist who thinks they can talk to a RAD child alone and get the "truth" does not understand attachment. Children use "triangulation"--that is they will be charming and lie the socks off the therapist, but they'll be the complete opposite with you. You need a therapist who believes YOU and helps YOU to heal your child.)

Good luck, and congrats!
Rebecca

[Rose808]

Rebecca,

Thanks for the advice! Jasmine will be placed in our home for 6 months before we can finalize. Our insurance will not cover her until she is legally ours. We are looking into a RAD therapist preferably close to us (Northeast Indiana). If we go out of network our insurance will pay some but not to the extent of what it would pay for an in network Dr. We are also looking into a subsidy. Not sure how to get that started, I went to the subsidy site and emailed the representative for our area and have had no response yet.

Thanks again!
Shawnna

[HappyMomAnna]

I am assuming you have been reading all the threads here about those of us dealing with RAD children and special needs..... I wish I had been on this site before our little girl was placed!

As for finding attchment therapists who accept or are covered inder the medicade or state provided health care--I am not sure there are any!!!! Not to sound flip but I havn't found a single expert mental health care provider who accepts the state insurance---and I have not found a physchritris who does or one who is even a prefered member of our personal health coverage...

After awhile a real RAD kid means we don't give a rip if we pay $150.00 or more an hour for help....and I am not jokeing. Be sure to get these costs in your adoption assistance subsidy!

Also be sure to talk with whichever state is in charge of the Foster Care supervision time frame... Because in Oregon during the waiting period we were NOT permitted to get attachment therapy as it is not recognized in our state...and several mathods are against DHS policy to use with Foster Children. Which was upsetting and difficult to deal with for us--Hopefully no one else faces that kind of issue.

Anyway---going down the journey with a RAD child is a life changing expereince for the parents.... It is long and filled with up's and downs....and pain and stress and angery--and self doubt and true seeing that WE are really pathetic parents...and then there is the moment the child looks in your eyes and means it when they say--I love you. Not that this means they become prefect angels just that hearing a RAD kid mean it when they say I love you is soooooooo much more better then the I loves yous of just about anyone else....

As long as you are going in knowing--and researching and understanding one thing SOME of us didn't--then you will be off to a better start. We cannot Love them out of it--we have to teach them and reparent them and do things over and over---but knowing what you are getting into is a great start--some of us were not that well informed....

Just watch you will be the parent who has NO problems and never learns what it feels like to be the mom of a RAD kid-doubful!!! But consider all of us who have children we were told were Ready to Attach to their forever families--that would be an ironic twist of fait....

[lucyjoy]

MO has attachment therapists covered by medicaid and they do allow preadoptive families to seek treetment. I was also allowed, before and after finalization, access to subsidy to pay for specialized intensive attachment therapy my children needed.
Not sure what Indiana offers, but states vary according to the knowledge children's services has regarding attachment. States who get it know that paying for treatment early means paying less and less kids tossed back into the system.

Be careful to not buy too much stuff early on. Many of my kids had trouble dealing with too much stuff. I found starting with a few clothes and a few things and adding later as they were able to care for their things worked better. That meant I could give instead of having to take away.

Also, for a child with RAD, being 5 doesn't really mean 5. Be prepared to reparent. Emotionally, she likely will be much younger. Don't involve her in any activities in the beginning. She needs to have her contact limited for awhile to just family so she can learn to allow you to meet her needs.

Insist on attachment therapy-she can't heal without it.

[Lorraine123]

MD also has attachment therapists covered by medicaid. So, I would look around in your area. We found our therapist through our county mental health association. Its vital to find attachment therapy - just be sure the therapist is thoroughly fmailiar with attachment issues, otherwise it can be a disaster.

When we were the chosen family for our daughter, we were told that she was ready to attach. In fact, we were told that they were getting ready to take away the diagnosis of RAD because she was almost healed. This came from her caseworker. Her therapist on the other hand described her as "the poster child for RAD". We of course, believed the caseworker.... Jokes on us - she is totally unattached. Realize, these children don't attach. It takes much, much, much, much hard work, therapy and therapuetic parenting to heal. I hear from others that they can heal and develop healthy attachments. I'm still waiting.....

My daughter has taught us so much. We now look at small successes. Someone recently asked me what my hopes and dreams for my daughter are. I just hope she can learn to trust others and find a healthy relationship in her adult life. I get so much pleasure and satisfaction from my relationship with my husband, I hope she can have the same.

Hang on for the ride of your life. And most importantly, don't ever forget your sense of humor. It gets us through a lot.

[Dr. Art]

As soon as you sign the intent to adopt document you can add a foster child to your health insurance (that is under federal law). You can find an appropriate therapist at ATTACh on the list of Registered Clinicians Unless the therapist is a registered clinician, or at least meets the criteria to be one. and should be a member of the Association for the Treatment and Training in the Attachment of Children I'd have very grave doubts about their ability to provide appropriate treatment.

You should hook up with the therapist now so that you have someone to help you set up your home appropriately and begin parenting on the right track (See, for example, Chapters 11 and 12 in Facilitating Developmental Attachment by Daniel Hughes) for guidance on "moving in day." Also see, Building the Bonds of Attachment, Daniel Hughes

regards

[whoownsthis]

Thanks so much for your suggestions, Dr. Art! You pointed me in the right direction regarding therapists a few weeks ago.

I called the ONE Indiana attachment therapist on the ATTAch site (Rick Sudsberry), and even though he is 2.5+ hours from our house (we're also in northeast Indiana), we'd much rather get the RIGHT treatment for our hopefully soon-to-be foster/adoptive children than to bounce from therapist to therapist! Although we're pretty lucky that "our" potential three have been with a great family for 2+ years and are not violent and we don't think they were ever sexually abused (just neglected). But they still have symptoms of attachment and said "I love you" and hugged us constantly during the weekend we had them at our house for respite (we had just met them!). The 11-yr-old told me on day 2, "I'm going to call you Mom, OK?" (to which I responded, "No, you can call me Miss Rebecca. You already have a mom who loves you very much." The 6-yr-old drew stick figures of my husband and myself and wrote "Mommy" and "Daddy" underneath them before leaving on the 3rd day. Surely these are signs of attachment trouble. Ugh.


Rose808, I'd really encourage you to give Sudsberry & Associates a call to see if Rick S. can assess your daughter. Since you'll be getting foster care payments for 6 months, you can pay for the therapy with that if your insurance won't pay for out-of-network providers (since he doesn't take Medicaid, either). At least that's our plan.

Which agency did your home study? They might have recommendations for an attachment therapist, too. I wish there was a northeast Indiana attachment support group where families could share their resources! Several workers at our (private) agency heard Rick Sudsberry speak at a seminar and recommended him, too.

I'll tell you, though, I can't believe how clueless most clinics are about "attachment therapy!" I called five "mental health therapists" who are covered by our insurance (Empire Blue...a Blue Cross Blue Shield EPO), but two of them do not work with children, and the other three needed me to explain what attachment therapy is before they could tell me if Dr. so-and-so does it! UGH!!!!!

Rebecca

[whoownsthis]

Sorry, quick off-the-topic question for Shawnna:

By any chance did you attend a transracial adoption training class during summer? (Your name sounds familiar for some reason.)

Rebecca

[Rose808]

Rebecca,

Thank you again for the advice, as well as the advice of everyone who has posted to this thread! It is greatly appreciated! I will definately look into Rick Sudsberry! If anyone hears of a RAD therapist in Northeast Indiana or Northwest Ohio it would be greatly appreciated. I too wish there was a support group in our area as I have been looking at every site that lists support groups and have been unable to find one in Northeast Indiana.

I didn't attend the transracial adoption training class, we did however attend the 32nd Foster/Adopt Conference in Indy a few weeks ago. Did you happen to go to that?

HappyMamaAnna,

We have been reading the posts on this site and have faced reality with our "dreams" of bringing home a child who will love us and who we will love in return. I know that every adoptive parent has those feelings when they first turn to adoption of how perfect everything will be. We now know by doing our home work that our fantasy is just that a fantasy and that there are going to be some bumpy roads ahead of us but we are still willing to move forward. This world needs more people like those of you who have dealt with RAD children or are willing to learn how to deal with RAD children. Other wise these children don't stand a chance of every being heal from thier past experinces.

[whoownsthis]

Shawnna, no we didn't go to the Indy conference, but that's the weekend we fostered the 3 kids for the family who DID go to the conference. Their foster family is not going to pursue adoption because the oldest girl is the same age as their son, and they do NOT get along. (These are probably some of the attachment symptoms (or maybe bipolar?) like hypercompetiveness, control issues, bossiness, etc.). But they really love these children and have done a tremendous job with them. The kids are so much healthier today than when they first got them 2+ years ago!!!

Sorry to digress...Just wanted to add that we are so lucky (those of us who are close to adopting attachment disordered children) that we can read the stories of families like HappyMomAnna, LucyJoy, Dadfor2, and others who struggle with parenting attachment disordered children and see what has worked for them. Occasionally we can even offer our own support and acknowledge the work they do day in and day out to heal their children. Thanks so much for that, everyone.

Rebecca