[dadfor2]

this is just a basic question....its more of a curiosity then a cry out for help.

special needs kids that are through adoption, tend to have some specific issues...weather it be attachment/ learning/ hyper/ anxiety/ RAD/ PTSD/ ADHD/FAS ....i hope some agree.

i have read alot of books and different parenting techniques.

but heres my question....just wondering what other people do.

when parenting a child at the beginning....do you choose your battles (due to children need control) or do you control everything (due to children needing control)
and slowly let them start to make choices.

i'm just curious....please, i dont want text book answers, or some authors view.....ive read them all....

i really want to know what you actually do in your own family.

not with what you think you are suppose to do, but what you actually do.

for those who had birth children ...do you find yourself more stricter with your adopted children due to the issues that they come with, or do you find yourself more easy due to their past traumas?

we do know regular parenting doesnt work with some of our kids....but does it?

I dont have birth kids, so i dont know.....anyway,...i know its a pretty broad question....


dadfor2

[dadfor2]

mabye this got lost somewhere......so id figured id bump it up again.....unless no one wants to talk to answer my posts anymore....lol

dadfor2

[Para]

Glad you bumbed up your post!

With us-we have a sibling group of 4.
In the beginning I chose my battles-we all were adjusting and I was a new parent.

My middle child-began to act much differently than her siblings. Professionals would say she was ADHD-RAD ect-(not True) her outbursts were louder and more aggressive and at times I thought she was really a nasty kid and maybe I wasn't the one to parent her-I thought she hated me.
No matter what I ask her to do or not do she did the opposite-life was hell and this kid was only 3 at the time.
Out of all four kids this child pushed the limits-She began to win all battles (she was the only one having a war) and when I reached my limits I found the right doctor to treat her aggression and bizarre behavior when he dx her with BiPolar disorder.
At this point she is stable and there are no more outbursts or horrible behaviors-she is a great kid.

Here we are 5 years later and I really don't have to choose my battles. The kids are well adjusted-they know the rules but kids are kids and try to push them-we just go with the flow and as long as we are all happy, everyone is safe and not breaking down the house, we are happy as clams these days.

I hope this gave you some info.
I babbled on so much I don't think this post made any sense.
LOL

[riley6]

We have two grown bio children. With them it was all trial and error. I have to say, I was 20 yrs younger and had more time and energy than I do now. I probably choose my battles more carefully now, but on some things I won't bend. I am also more consistant now. I don't give second chances with my kids healing from RAD. It may sound mean to some people, but it really is best for them. I am much tighter with our schedules too. It helps them bc they have such anxiety over change.

Were there any specific behaviors that you wanted advice about?

[Lorraine123]

Initially, we gave our daughter no control. According to all the books we had read, we as her parents were supposed to control EVERYTHING.

Well, that lasted a short time.... As a result, we had rages daily (several a day). We found that if we gave her some control, the rages decreased. We now give her two choices and she then chooses (of course she can instantly tell which of the two we like the least and she chooses that one). She also initially would choose a third option, which wasn't offered. But we found that she would easily concede to one of the two.

With my two older biological children, I wasn't nearly as strict or controlling. It was definltely trial and error (with error being the key word here). If I knew then what I know now, things would be very different, but of course hindsight is always 20/20. I think with "normal" kids (and I use that phrase tentatively with any of my kids), if you make a mistake they bounce back. Its not as critical. On the other hand, if I let up on my RAD daughter, she zeros in on it and it takes forever to make up the lost ground.

I have learned a lot in the last 10 months my daughter has been with us. At first, she was a "stranger". She didn't fit the mold of my other kids and I felt like I was just flapping in the wind. So, I went totally by the book. As time went on, and we got to know each other, we relaxed. I learned to trust my instincts more. Now, if the book says do it one way, but I know another way works for us, I trust myself. In the same way, if someone tells me that what I am doing is wrong, but it works for us, I trust my gut. And we are making progress.

I definitely still read (mostly here, because I really get a lot of support from hearing from others in the same boat), and I really take to heart what I read. But I also know that only I live with my daughter and I know her best.

I'm not sure if that answers your question. If not, let me know and I'll try to do a better job.

[dadfor2]

hi riley,

not really anything any specific....

for instance...this is just basic stuff...my kids say they want play time outside..i say...ok, but just 10min till dinner

then ill go out and say 5 min till dinner...

then ill say 2 min

then ill say its time to come in....

but they wont...

i have to go through this battle...it doesnt happen all the time, but i would say it happens alot.

its just so frustrating....i have given them cold meals, and have to deal with the screaming over that..."sorry, if y ou came in when i told you too, it wouldnt be cold"....everything seems like a battle.

this happens in the morning also...

"we want play time"

"well, first get ready for school, and if you do it quick enough, youll have play time..."

"no, we want play time...(lasts about 5 min) then comes:

"sorry, have to get ready for school..." me

"no, i want play time..." I

back and fourth we go..

ill say.."if you got ready when i asked, then you would have some play time, but we ran out of time arguing about if you can have play time...so there is no time left.."

but here is my problem...sometimes, i wonder if i should just be really strict with everything...i know some of these behaviors are just like most kids (i think).....but it just gets so tiring morning after morning, night after night.

they just dont seem to listen. sometimes i actually have to carry the little guy in the bathroom screaming to take a bath....

he knows its coming, but feels he has to battle...

they are both very controlling...and sometimes if i just get so strict where they cant do anything...wonder if that will help.

i never yell at them...well, maybe once or twice when they just get me to a point...

they are both full of energy from the minute they get up...jumping all over the place...especially my older one, who loves to jump from coach to coach..no matter how many times i tell him not too and put him in his room for calm down time.

sometimes i just get so tired, then i dont even bother telling them to stop...because i know it will end up in a battle.

so i was just wondering what others did....up to this point i just chose my battles....but they are still out of control sometimes. i know they feed off of each other....

i do hope it will get better as they get older..

so i was just wondering if i should just be so strict...until they realize i mean business....lol

dadfor2

[dadfor2]

hi lorraine,

we must of posted at the same time...thanks you.

para...i still think my older son is bipolar..his birth mom was, but he is only 8 and they said they wont dx him with that yet.

so we will see, but its great to hear that things are more quieter in your household..thats hopeful

lorraine...yes, you answered my post...thank you.
so you were strict at the beginning, then gave the choices..

i give choices too, but it still doesnt work.....lol...

they are so self willed, its unbelievable.......sometimes i feel like pulling my hair out...

dadfor2

[lucyjoy]

"We want to play"

"What did you need to do first?"

"we want to play!"

"What did I say?"

"That's why dad's are in charge, not little boys"

I find rephrasing with a question helpful. Also the word "bummer"
without explanation can also help.

I've also been know th sing loudly "You can't always get what you want!!" (My kids all no the words to that song as well as "Poor, poor pitiful me)

With the early kids, I had no clue about the control issues. After that, I held all the control and released it as soon as the child was able to handle having it. It works for us.

[dadfor2]

thanks lucyjoy

i will try asking the question...thats a great idea....

i also do the singing thing...more for me, because i start to go crazy, so ill just start singing and dancing...)it calms me down anyway...they think im crazy im sure...but what the heck...i get a laugh out of it.

but i do like the asking question thing...that makes alot of sence.

ill let you know in the morning how it worked while i am trying to get them dressed and out of the house....lol

dadfor2

[ChristyES]

My RAD son is a major control freak and so am I--lol.

He's five and I spend a great deal of time coaching him on appropriate behavior. I outline the do's and don't's in every situation.

For instance, when we go to the counselors office I have him tell me the rules for waiting in the waiting room (1)no talking to strangers (he's the type of kid that will hug a total stranger or go up to someone and sit on their lap) (2) sit next to me (3) wait for the receptionist come to the window, do not yell to her while she is with another patient. (4)no tantrums in the waiting area. I then explain to him that if any of the rules are broken, he will owe me time when we get home. I never promise a reward for good behavior but often give him a treat "just because" if we had a successful outing.

This works fairly well as long as we are having a "normal" day. His emotions are still difficult to control and sometimes he just flips out. At this point, its just good to have a sense of humor. My husband and I will sometimes rate his tantrums on a scale of 1-10. I'll say, "the one you had at the grocery store was better, there was more screaming." Or we'll offer suggestions like add more stomping or try laying on the floor like you did when you were younger. This usually irritates him enough to get him to forget what was originally upset about and the moment subsides. When we're really going for a laugh, we have a temper tantrum ourselves. He looks at us like we're the ones who are embarassing.

My all time favorite lines are "because mommy said so" and "I'm the boss". This is so counter to what I learned in all my education classes but it works for him. He needs limits and needs to know we mean business. Of course there is also lots of hugs, kisses, and snuggles and considering the difficulties our little guy was having when we first came to live with us, he is making great progress.

We eliminate a lot of fits by simply establishing firm routimes. For example, on school days, no one goes down stairs until they are dressed, hair and teeth brushed, beds made, rooms straightened, then we go downstairs feed fish, feed cats, sit at the counter eat breakfast-no toys, no TV. Natural consequence for taking too long to get dressed is no time to choose breakfast and he has to eat what mommy chooses in the car on the way to school. On Saturdays it's a treat to go downstair in PJs, play before breakfast, eat in front of the TV, etc...

Bedtime is also non-negotiable. If he goes without a fuss, he gets a shoulder ride upstairs. If he fusse, dad goes upstairs without him and he has to walk up the steps. If it takes to long, there's no time for books or he loses one of his two books for taking to long. He loves books so this is a big motivator.


Every child is an individual but a very controlled environment seems to work best for our little guy.

Christy

[LilyMoon]

Hi Dad,

I chose my battles at the beginning and still do. The important safety related issues are non-negotiable and need to be followed or the activity stops. I started looser when we came home for a number of reasons and then tightened the reigns more and more. This was due to language barrier and lack of trust and just wanting to establish basic trust before my daughter saw me as a drill sargeant!

With my bio son, I was and still am much more lenient. He didn't need the strict enforcement of rules that my daughter does or the lessons in appropriate behavior. Since my daughter was not exposed to so many of the social situations she is now in, she needs the short course on behavior in the outside world. My son just learned these behaviors being with me from birth.

I tend to be a more mellow parent by nature and so parenting my daughter is more difficult for me. I am working on using stricter parenting techniques and correcting behaviors as soon as they arrise. It has been a lesson for both of us!

Hope this answers your questions.
___________________
LilyMoon

[riley6]

I went to a Nancy Thomas workshop. She said the person who asks the questions is the one in charge. It should always be the parent asking the question. Something like:

Child: can we go play outside?
Parent: We will be eating in ten minutes, when will you come inside?
Child: when you call us.
Parent: are you sure?
Child: yes.

Child: I want to play (before school).
Parent: What do you have to do first?
Child: but I want to play!
Parent: What is the rule?

Also, if you can make a poster for shool/bedtime routines, it might help the kids visualize what needs to be done and when. Get a digital clock and put the poster above it. Let the kids help make the poster. Put the time on the poster and next to it a picture (kids draw or cut out of magazines) what they have to do at that time. The kids can go through the poster kind of like a check list and see if they've done all their morning business so they have time to play before school.

>>>>>>he knows its coming, but feels he has to battle...>>>>

He may be testing you to see if he can "beat" you in the battle. My 7 yr old does this all the time. I think you may need to be more on the strict side right now. If the kids are getting their own way bc it's easier for you now, you're going to have lots of problems in the future (said by a mom with 3 teens!). The kids have to see that YOU and dw are in control. In the long run it will make them feel SAFER!

You're doing a great job btw. I know being a first time parent with two very active kids can be overwhelming. You're doing great though!

[foldnfly]

Hi everyone, I have 3 bio kids 14, 16, 18 and they are wonderful, responsible people. I get so many compliments that they are respectful and actually like being with their family. But I have to remind myself that what works with them and their back ground isn't the same for our 2 foster/adopt boys ages 2 & 4. They have been in the system for 2 years. That's not as long as some but long for most of your life! We've read some, went to classes and have come to "I have control, you have choices." The 4 year old tends to just decide he wants to go down the street and does...he has to be reminded he can't just do. He's learning!!
We ask him, "Who is the mom and dad?" Whose job is it to decide that...I love what was said, "The one who asks the questions is the one in control." We love to answer "why..." with why do you think...I know the warnings of 5 min. 2 min. now, is recommended but if it isn't working quit doing it, if the result is a battle,xcf\ change tactics. These boards are very helpful! The boys like to jump and all too. If you jump on the furniture you sit on the floor. Respect our home, lack of respect means you don't get use of ... Creative parenting~!

[HappyMomAnna]

Even with the grown bios I am in charge of everything that happens when you live, "in this house." If you want to get away with something do so when I am at the store and your father is in charge because he is not as Hip to all the little things that mom controls, 'in this house."

We do play good-cop, bad-cop to some degree but dad has learned when he doesnt know the right answer he will Cell call mom or wait for her to get back, "in this house."

When the Special children moved in I was completely firm with all the rules, "in this house." And when we started there was very little flexibility about the things that go on, 'in this house."

"In this house we are nice to each other."

"In this house we do not hit, pinch, bite, or hurt each other with words or in any other way."

"In this house the parents are in charge--we fix dinner, we buy your clothes, we make sure you have what you need."

"In this house, we do not lie--steal--cheat--or sneak."

"In this house we love each other and respect each other completely."

Even with my grown children the rules are all about the HOUSE! When you grow up and pay your own rent your House can be whatever you want it to be.....

As time passes, I am able to be more flexible....there are some battles not worth fighting. I used to have a motto with my older children.....it had to do with sneaking into the Ice Cream---they believed they were getting away with it----what they didn't know is that I was letting them think they were getting away with something because I didn't want them to look for something else to get away with---better it be the ice cream then drugs and other things....

I think it is easier to become more flexible then it is to impose new rules later.... It is always easier to back off then it is to get tougher.

But, I also tend to allow cycles--periods of time where I allow more pushing or bending to see how the child will respond.... Once the child knows the rules.....you can let them hang themselves with their own rope and then snap back down and be firm for another cycle.... Trying a new method perhaps to help the kid change the problem behavior...

While I am tough I am also shocking---Like the week daddy was gone on a business trip and one night we had banana splits for dinner and a whip cream on the nose games---and then we sucked the whip cream right out of the can.....(ice cream seems to matter a lot in my home?)

Or the night when my bios were young and I told them they had to stay awake all night watching TV--because they could!

Sometimes even when we are being really firm--we can take a break and just have FUN.

[crick]

dadfor2 -

just wondered...when the boys don't come inside when told to, do they they get to play outside again later that day or even the next day?

This week we've had excellent weather and have been outside a lot. There have been a few times where one or 2, or even 4 of the kids haven't come inside when I called them. I called them again and also added if they didn't come inside they would not get to go outside again. One didn't come in and had to physically bring him in. Stuck to my guns and he had to stay inside the rest of the day. Not much fun for him with his siblings playing outside. Plus, inside meant no t.v. and only a few select toys that I picked out. Helped me clean and sat with me as I paid bills, didn't get a popsicle (outside only snack) and was basically bored to death.

Just wondered what the consequences are for your boys besides a cold dinner?

Plus, one point I want to make. If you know dinner is in 10 min., I probably would say "no" to going outside and if possible, say "if you behave well at dinner, then you can have outside time"

Crick