[Dr. Art]

Dear Needbob,

I'm so glad the attach website was helpful and you are in with someone who can really help you. Doesn't that person have access to insurance. I mean, isn't s/he on various managed care panels?

If the issue is the provider is not on panel, that is a very tough and uphill battle. The therapist will have to do the work to get on panel.

If the issue is that they won't cover that treatment, that can be addressed as a coding issue and your therapist should be able to manage that. I am on many many insurance panels and have had lots of success getting onto others as necessary. I have separate contracts for my specific type of treatment. Feel free to have your therapist contact me and I can give him/her suggestions and send her/him copies of letter/materials I use to make my case. The biggest support is the research I've do that demonstrates the effectiveness of this therapy for these kids.

Regards,

[neebob]

Hi,

Thanks for such a quick reply. There is an insurance issue, we work with 2 therapists at a time for one thing, and that's a coding issue. Both Dr's have contracts with insurance co.'s, but not under this Institute. I am certainly appealing my insurance co.'s decision. Thank you for your offer of assistance!

I do have another question (should I start another thread?). THere is an adult who has inserted themselves into my daughter's life and is-in my opinion- DETRIMENTAL to her therapy. Buys her things, I believe has - in the past - discouraged her from taking rx's, will rescues her instead of letting her experience natural consequences, etc. THere are many other examples, but you get the idea. This is causing more attachment issues. Anyone have any past experience? Please pass any wisdom on!

Thanks to all-
neebob

[lucyjoy]

Why is this adult anywhere near your daughter? I had a problem with a "recovery room" teacher who kept doing this and then refused to tell me what she and my son talked about. I sent sritten notice to the school that my son was not to have contact with her and it was interfering with the therapy. She continued to sneak around with my son buying him soda(sure I was abusing him, the darling little con man). I went to the district and she was fired.

I havealso removed children from school to stop this interference.

If it's not a school issue, keep the child away from this adult.

[neebob]

If it were that easy. She is the guardian to a "friend" of my daughter, and my daughter is a teenager. So even if I forbid her from calling her, she uses the phone at school, etc.

Thanks for the suggestion....

[lucyjoy]

If it were my child(and 5 are teens), I would talk to the adult and let her know what she's doing is harmful to your daughters treetment. If that didn't stop the problem, I would not let my child near that adult. The friend would be allowed at my home, but the mother would not be forming a "relationship" with my child. Unattached children are really good at finding good hearted people to con.

I'm sure there are many parents who have dealt with this problem. Hopefully, someone will be able to give you a better way of dealing with this situation.

[neebob]

I think your ideas are great. My hat is off to you with *5* teenagers! The relationship between the guardian and myself (and my husband) is, at best, antagonistic.

When you mention that you would not let your child near that adult....that sounds so right - and obvious, and I totally agree. Yet, since both my child and this adult find ways to access each other (phone, email, etc.) how would you (or anyone) suggest that I deter this? It seems to me that my daughter enjoys finding ways to defy me. This is just one more way.

This adult also seems to have an agenda with me. She calls my pastor - even if my kid has her phone priv's taken away...(for swearing at myself or my husband).

I thank you so much for your input. Your experience and willingness to help is great.

[lucyjoy]

If she's calling your pastor, perhaps you can explain the situation to him and he can talk with this person. If possible, take the therapist with you. This person will end up hot lining you. Your daughter enjoys making you look bad in this person's eyes and she's getting a lot of attention for it.

Try to avoid getting into a control battle with your daughter over this issue. It may cause the relationship to be more appealing to her. Keep a journal of this persons interference and why it negatively affects your daughter. This may help if she hotlines you. Cancel your daughter's social life-computer, phone, going out and don't explain why, she knows why. Spend a great deal of time with her(except when you feel like strangling lol). She needs to be concentrating on her therapy and working on her life and she can't do that with all the distraction.

If this adult continues to interfere, I'd consider looking into legal action.

[nancygeoghegan]

Hi Sue - I don't have an email address for you but I did send you a private message with some contacts in Illinois - let me know you got it or email me at info@advantage-web-design.com

Nancy Spoolstra is a former board member of ATTACh and may know of someone that can help you. She is in Illinois.

[neebob]

What is hot lining?

[lucyjoy]

Reporting someone for child abuse.

[neebob]

I kind of figured that. I think she's done that.

Great suggestion re: pastor. I've got a call into him.

I have another question. Can anyone point me to a good article making the case for RAD therapy vs. traditional therapy? I need to persuade my insurance company....THanks.

Have a great weekend everyone!

[neebob]

Just thought I'd update. THanks Lucyjoy, for your advice. I spoke with Social Services and they adviced me to just call the guardians and tell them they were to have no more contact with my daughter, etc. If they chose not to comply, I had legal avenues. I'm not going to lay it all out here, but you get the drift.

Of course, when I told my daug that we had done this, she blew. (I told her because I didn't want her finding it out from the guardian.....I need to build trust with my daug.) I have tried to explain it wasn't something she did, that the this wasn't a punishment for her etc. That adults needed to behave responsibly etc etc.

I hope this helps with treatment. However, things have digressed to the point that all my daug talks about is getting out of the house, if that doesn't work running away, if that doesn't work....etc.
She is completely confrontational - all the time! It's exhausting to live with her. She has been distorting nearly everything her dad or I say to her, and it is also nearly impossible to reason with her. Could there be something else going on here too?

I was just reading a thread about rtc's and losing custody of one's child to social services. I need to find out what the deal is my state, but even if temp cust went to the state, what does that do to the status of the adoption? If that situation comes up for us...and it might.

And lucyjoy - as far as her social life goes, she pretty well sabotoged that with continually swearing at us (no phone, no email) not being were she's supposed to be (going out) failing a class at school (just got the letter today, deciding what to do).

[lucyjoy]

I would not recommend an RTC. For attachment disordered children, they're easier then living in a family. The RTC staff will also see you as crazy because your daughter will act fine for them. My son went to RTC only after repeated attempts to kill me and an attempt to kill a younger sibling. Except for extreme cases where the child is placing others in danger or are too dangerous to themselves for you to control, RTC's are a poor answer.

I would have expected your daughter to react the way she did. You did exactly what she needed you to do and how dare you love her that much. You also stopped her feel sorry for me train.
When my teens have threatened to run away, I have them make a survival plan. I'm going to so and so's house gets the reply good idea, then they'll call me and the police will know where to pick you up. Would you like them to drop you at juvi or home?etc.
One child said he'd hide in the woods. It was 100 degrees at the time and he had no plan for water. I informed him he's be dead and where would he like to be buried? I also had one look up the numbers of several pizza places so we'd be able to get the pizza before the police needed us to come down and claim him.
The therapist always tels them to wear comfortable shoes and to eat lunch first. Measuring their room for the new home gym is good also. My friend's daughter use to run away a lot so she took her room and told her she didn't hold rooms for run aways.

Whatever you do, do not let her engage you in an argument. Asking questions is useful also. If my children are being unreasonable I simply agree with them. "Yes, I am stupid, how could you tell?" Then when they want something like dinner or a ride-"oh honey, I'm sorry, I'm too stupid to do that."

Hang in there and give the therapy some time to work.

Read 99 ways to Drive Your Child Sane for relaxation. I forgot the author's name and I can't find my book. I think Tapestry books has it.

[neebob]

There are so many good books I want to read. I just finished Fay/Cline's Parenting Teens with L&L. Good book.

Regarding engaging in arguments. I also find the reply of "I'm sorry you feel that way" useful and real. And I neither agree or disagree. But, when I say that, I'm being very honest. If she didn't feel that way, maybe she'd be happier, and we'd all be happier. I don't explain all that of course, but it's in my mind.

I'm not surprised about the RTC. When we hosp'd our daug last yr, we were surprised what the rules were (and take note: the brochure/pamphlet they gave us of what the rules were were vastly untrue. They had just changed to comply with some law). AND OF COURSE the guardian and bf visited almost, if not, everyday! Bringing her things she wanted, all that! What a party! And our request to not visit went entirely disregarded. And all the hospital could/would do is supr the visits.

btw - I don't think I've stopped the train yet. Good analogy though.

As far as running away goes,(which she has attempted before) she wouldn't make a plan if I asked, she says she's happy to live on the streets, and if I measured the room she'd twist that as I don't want her anymore, can't wait for her to leave, etc. When I said before she distorts everything, I mean everything. I feel sometimes I want to video everything that goes on around here!

At the very least we're with very good therapists - recommended on the attach.org list. I can't believe what a difference it makes.

[lucyjoy]

Maybe somebody needs to show her what living on the streets really looks like. If you had custody of your child and the hospital allowed someone to visit without your permission, I'd be talking to an attorney.

The run away plan isn't optional. If she thinks living on the street is fine, she has to let you know what she'll do for food and shelter. If she doesn't do it, she can't do anything. If she runs, you call the police.

You're the parent, your daughter doesn't get a vote when it comes to serious matters that affect her welfare. Also, when measuring her room, of course she's going to accuse you of trying to get rid of her. Simply remind her that she's the one who said she was leaving. Or you could simply act shocked and say "Why would I want to do that, you're so much fun to be around? I love being threatened and screamed at." then continue measuring. If she knows her words are bothering you, she'll use them more.

Is your therapist advising you at all on how to parent this child and deal with her threats?