[lisa in venice]

Originally Posted by oceangirlHI

I really enjoyed this thread, i was actually going to start a similar one because i had an intreging (to me) thought:
Often, Caucasion (sp) parents are criticized for only wanting to adopt children of their own race (if this is what they are only willing to do). So why is it that AA parents who make the same choice (are only willing to adopt within their race) dont get criticized in the same way?
Please dont slam me for saying any of this, I dont really have an opinion one way or the other, i was just curious to see what others thought

It has two causes: First there is the legacy of racism in this country and how AA people tend to be on the bottom of the racial hierarchy, there is the feeling that adopting transracially is that racism turned inward (sort of agreeing with the rest of the world that says that our chidlren are not worthy). The second issue is the shear number of AA childrent ath are available. See for us to adopt transracially you often have to really go out of your way because in most places there are far more people competing for HWI AND very few people willing to adopt AA babies so inorder to specify that you want to adopt transracially you would probably ahve to turn down SEVERAL chidlren to wait for a CC or Hisp child. LIke I said in our fourth search for a child we were offered a few full CC babies but int he end the fees were twice what we could pay. We searched independently and within 12 weeks we had over 50 leqads on infants and toddlers of those 50, 5 became matches. I don't think that happens when looking for CC infants. Bottom mline is that when AA people want to adopt there are so many opportunities it is almost like you would have to step over all of the available chidlren to make a statement AND with the legacy of slavery there is a history of taking care of your own. It is still a very strong cultural thing and it is unfortunately stll neccessary because others are still reluctant to take care of our children.

lisa

[nickchris]

I guess looking at the whole situation of race and adoption, I agree with Lisa, the underlying racial issues in our society really do affect our choices. Such racial problems have made many issues complicated. AA children are at the bottom of the ladder (esp. AA boys) , then B&W biracial etc; if a CC person is not comfortable with adopting an AA child then by all means do not do it. What seem to contradict this is some of these same folks will adopt an Asian/ Indian/latino child who are of another race/culture, I wonder what is the difference? especially when there is a need.

[timbo30]

>AA children are at the bottom of the ladder (esp. AA boys)

This makes me so sad. My husband and I are white and our son is almost 9 months old and full AA. I can't wait for another one. I love little boys and would take them all if I could. It frustrates me that any child would be seen as bottom of the ladder because they are all equally special. The world can be so cruel.

timbo

[Linny]

I had heard this a few years ago, but didn't know if it was still considered harder to place AA boys?
I had a phone conversation with a dear friend a few days ago, who told me that a friend of hers just adopted toddler twin boys.........CC boys. The new parents are AA.
As my friend and I discussed, (she is AA, I am seemingly CC).....this is something you just wouldn't have even heard about a few years ago. Thank God things are slowly changing and children are finding homes, rather than having to be color-matched first!

Sincerely,

Linny

[BethanyB]

Often, Caucasion (sp) parents are criticized for only wanting to adopt children of their own race (if this is what they are only willing to do). So why is it that AA parents who make the same choice (are only willing to adopt within their race) dont get criticized in the same way?

This is where I believe you are mistaken. I have no problem with people wanting to adopt children of their own race. And I think most people feel the same way. It is totally normal to want to adopt a child who shares your race and skin tone. It totally makes sense to me.

What I and a lot of other people do not like is when people will adopt any race BUT AA. Or are willing to adopt a biracial child but NOT a "full" AA child. It does not make sense to me at all. And it hurts as a mother of a "full" AA child.

It just tells me that we as a society still have biased views against AA people. Skin tone especially. And it makes me sad.

So, if a CC person wants to adopt a child of their own race, then great! If an AA person wants to adopt a child of their own race, then wonderful! But if either race said they would adopt a child of any race EXCEPT AA, CC. Then I believe there is something going on there, and I think it's sad.

[KarynB]

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in here....great thread! We adopted our first son from south africa after knowing him while working over there for a time....When it came time to adopt #3, our social worker tried to convince us to go domestic (although we are in Canada, not US)and assured us that we would get a multi-racial baby relatively quickly. So, chances were we would be referred a black baby, as we already had a black son. But for us it wasn't a question of race, it was more a question of culture. The culture of SA fascinates us - it is so rich and full of resiliancy. (don't get me wrong - i am not saying that African Americans don't have a rich culture - they do!), but we were just really drawn to Africa as a whole, and more specifically SA. We also love to travel.So despite the money thing (which was HUGE for us), the "easier wait", etc...we went International.
Not to mention, we get a really cool trip out of the bargain (safari, anyone?)

I really believe we all have to do what we feel is right for us - and honestly if adoptive parents think they can't handle the questions, staring, etc (although we have had almost none of that), then it's better for the child to not be placed in that home, anyways.

I love the fact that we have so many cultures mixed into our little family...

As far as black boys placed at the "bottom of the ladder", what about Chinese girls? Sure, they are valued in NA culture - but the world is cruel to them too. What about girls in some parts of India? Not a great place to be, at times. Besides - anyone who places these boys "at the bottom of ladder" - it's just plain ignorance. And, they don't know what they are missing!

Ok - new controversial question - what do you guys think is the difference in raising a black child in Canada compared to the US in terms of wider cultural acceptance?

[nickchris]

In our country, AA boys are at the bottom of the ladder, esp. when they get older (the numbers tell us that). Folks, all babies are cute, when the cute factor wears off you are dealing with how our culture deal with AA esp. boys. At least when Asian girls come here thay are seen as smart (which is a generalization in itself) same. Our AA children are not viewed that way (generally)
While I am a Christian, I have to be realistic, and racism is racism; it affects us all. I do think that with AA children in need here, personally I would help "my own" prior to looking else where. The simple connotation of how AA children are viewed via lower adoption fees etc; biracial seen as "better" tell me the truth, all AAs are mixed with something.
Canada does not have the same history with racism that th USA has, The blacks that live there are from the west indies and other countries. However, there are problems popping up now that the Canadian black population is raising.
On a side note, AA as descendants of Africa do possess the same strength, and rich culture (look in the south, certain words, music, the foods) kind of hard to seperate the two . I teach my AA sons about Africa as that is their ancestor's birthplace. This is the same as Irish/Italian etc;

[KarynB]

I guess that is one thing I don't agree with - while I respect your opinion about "taking care of your own", I just don't subscribe to it, myself. What is the definition of "our own"? I think it is those arbitrary divisions we put up that are at the very root causes of what we are trying to break-down. Nationalism is a social construction, nothing "real" or substantial (in my opinion). Yes, I may get lots of angry remarks for that statement, but as a political scientist I have studied so many cases of wars, famine, etc are fought solely on nations ideals of "taking care of their own", yet no one seems to really know what that is. So, I can't agree that we should take care of "our own" first before "looking elsewhere" - as citizens of developed nations we have the priviledge of being able to offer these children homes - wherever they happened to be born.

And yes, while AA are obviously tied to Africa culture and heritage - there are also ties to the Caribbean (New Orleans), etc - which again can be traced back to Africa - but can't we all? My point was more that we were drawn to SA culture and history in an inexplicable way, despite having travelled in many parts of the world. So when we teach our kids about their heritage we do it with tons of enthusiasm (maybe too much sometimes?)

And while canada does not have the same history of racism - I also disagree that most blacks are from the west indies - actually the majority are from Northern Africa (Somalia, Ethiopia) and many from SSAfrica. And yes, as our cities get bigger there are many issues arising with race, especially around boys and men...sad but true. We also have a lot of racial tensions and very sad situations with our Aboriginal population...and so much racism.

When it comes right down to it, genetically we are all 99.99% the same - yup, almost NO difference genetically between whites, blacks, hispanics, Asians, etc...which leaves very little room for difference. I tell our son that we are all shades of brown (his daddy is the lightest being Dutch - so really he is pink!, I am medium brown - being part native, and he is darker brown).

Anyways, not sure where all this is going - love to hear more of what others think!

[nickchris]

While we wait on others to comment, I will reply . I have personal information on such information (Canadian population and ties to Africa) ...considering my folks came from the West Indies as well (have some family up there). As for the others black folks..that is why my follow up sentence says from *other countries*. As for the type of racism, based on your background I should not have to relay how slavery started and was dragged out in the US history, in addition fast forward to now and AA deal with subtle racism which BTW is much worse because folks try to rationalize those occurances. And to clarify I meant the *type* of racism that is in the US.
Bringing up an AA child in the US is different based on its racial history and most of us AA parents do ponder the balance of building our children's self esteem, just beig a child, while we prepare him for the real world. I would love to *only* relay that we are all the same and really wish that would be the perfect bandaid..but in this society?
That is why I say taking care of our own, AA have many complexities to deal with due to racism, and our children suffer because of such...it can even start from our home or extended family. While the US is powerful etc; our children deal with the brunt of social issues, and adoption is not exempt. Cannot clean up some one elses yard until your yard is cleaned up.
BTW "taking care of our own" and "it takes a village" is well understood among AA

[KarynB]

Yes, I totally agree with most of what you are saying - it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend love is all it takes and the whole world is colourblind. And subtle racism is alive everywhere - maybe more so in US due to history, as you are saying.

I'm not sure you entirley understood, however, what i meant by no one understanding what "taking care of our own means", I'm glad its understood by African Americans, but I meant it more in a nationalistic sense, rather than in a racial context. So, for those saying that others should adopt in-country rather than looking "outside" - "inside" or "outside" only relates to the place you were born....to me, anyways. sigh, not sure I'm making much sense at this point.

Just to clarify - yes, much of Canada's black population originates from the West Indies (I also have family from the West Indies here in Canada) and is concentrated mainly in eastern canada, but numbers are rapidly growing of African born Canadians as well, especially in Eastern Canada, due to so many conflicts happening and Canada's relatively lenient refugee/immigration policies. And, Canada also faced slavery brought over from French explorers, although not as wide spread nor as long lasting as the US.

Great conversation - keep it comin....

[nickchris]

Hey!! hope you are not a family member LOL but I *converse* with them too. .a lot of my folks think the same way..because of differences in the WI also (to some degree). When you grow up in the US, boy do you understand. I had an incident yestarday with a lady....the subtle racism is a killer. And I am sure that the US is not unique, it may be wrapped up in a different package, based on colonialism (India, the WI) I am studying with my 10 yo DS about such history.. how the forefathers allowed folks to deal with the guilt of being christian yet keeping a human as property because of the great profit. Also I do see in history how the majority gets real uncomfortable with the rising numbers of the underclassed minority, thing start to change.
Anyhow..adopt from where ever..just do not ask for input on an AA message board LOL.

[akcskye]

I'm not so sure I can agree with you wholeheartedly here.

While I do understand and agree with you on the statement "as is"...sometimes people have not thought beyond this into the true dynamics that make people decide what races they can/will accept.

I have lots of friends who "will adopt any race BUT AA". Yes, they will accept a bi-racial placement.

Why? Because they wonder what they, with no black friends around, and not too close to any black people in general (such as at work)...what can THEY teach a black child about the AA culture?

In the case of a bi-racial child, at least you can celebrate both cultures...but, being raised in a white family, they can seemingly adjust better.

I live in the South...MANY times a bi-racial child is not "accepted" as readily by blacks as whites. And yes, being flamed for being white and adopting a black is VERY taboo around here.

Myself, I am already a minority being Native American, and I wanted a placement within the cultures I was raised...white and NA...so that's why we chose no AA (in Oklahoma, there are more NA than AA at times, and you have to qualify for NA placements).

So, no flames please, I hope I've articulated my point well enough for you all to see that YES, I agree with your statement...EXCEPT for the factor of feeling it's ALWAYS being racially motivated in the way of discrimination or considering blacks as "2nd class".

Originally Posted by BethanyB

What I and a lot of other people do not like is when people will adopt any race BUT AA. Or are willing to adopt a biracial child but NOT a "full" AA child. It does not make sense to me at all. And it hurts as a mother of a "full" AA child.

It just tells me that we as a society still have biased views against AA people. Skin tone especially. And it makes me sad.

[nickchris]

That is understandable that you would want to have a child that you can identify with, and at least you are honest about that. Adopting a child should take a lot of soul searching.
I think that a person who cannot extend themself for a child of another race, (even if it means befriending a Aa person or two from work) then do not do it.
Half question here I do find it hard to believe that AAs will not accept a biracial child as readily as an AA one ? if this is happening now that is a very recent occurance. Taking in *all* the children has been going on for many generations. most AA are mixed and really deal with that in a matter of fact way, my bio son is very mixed looking altho we are both (per the census LOl) AA, our situation is not a unique situation. And a biracial child will be viewed as AA per our society issues with blood percentage and skin color. IMO a lot of CC folks have a hard time being comfortable with race issues /AA and what does not seem familiar. That is why it is easier with biracial kids (at times) how much a CC can *see* of themself looking back at them.. so it is about the skin/hair etc; folks are that shallow. Among the AA community it is known that the biracial child will be seen as AA in the US, and that is just how it is and dealt with....very matter of fact...we do not worry about embracing the Cc side..because a lot of us have Cc and other races in us..but hair and skin etc; will over ride any approach to our individuality.

[akcskye]

Case and point (sad as it is).

I have a friend who had a one night stand with a black gentleman, and got pregnant.

His family REFUSED to claim his "white baby" as did he, and she has no contact with him, period.

Black people in the store ask her why she's trying to make her baby a wannabe black baby (hello, she's just buying hair goodies for her GOREGEOUS hair!!!).

Her white friends, however, don't even consider that S is 1/2 AA. Makes no difference. Neither do white strangers...she gets glowing remarks about S's beauty and attitude.

Now, I also have a new friend who is white and has an AA baby. The response from the black people is "how dare you adopt one of ours", to which she has responded "I didn't see you beating down the door to adopt J"...haha

Yes, as unfortunate as it is...race still can be an issue...and it is more regional I think than anything.

I know it *seems* old fashioned that people think this way, but in certain areas, especially in the South, it's still the norm.

Originally Posted by nickchris

Half question here I do find it hard to believe that AAs will not accept a biracial child as readily as an AA one ?

[nickchris]

Hmm seems that the common thread in the senarios is that the biracial baby is with a CC person (mother) and that may be causing the issues with the AA. A one night stand and such would make me think about the general relationship that the families have, there may be more to that situation. I am very traditional, as is the majority of Aa folks I know..What I do see among the younger folks is the increased interacial dating or "hooking" up that may place another layer to the issues. As for the CC folks remarks..thats normal because of the features (I get that about my little DS all the time,,,,AA do not make as big a deal)
Also, there are issues among a lot of AA (some will be more verbal than others) when they see an AA baby with another race..yes it is complicated, but based on racial issues, they may nto articulate that the underlaying fear is the taking away of the AA culture. I am sure this would occur in any other country with similiar underlying issues of slavery/colonialism.