[Lexie]

Well and there is a much uglier side as well. My mother ( though quite brown skinned--not fair) has blue/grey eyes. There are NO white people married into my family before my generation. We also have a couple cousins with green eyes--same thing. We do not think there was any secret romance---much to much pain clearly associated when it is discussed. During slavery and after "rape" of Black women was not seen as a crime and it was pervasive. And no---its not something our family is likely to want to talk about or admit in terms of acknowledging any "white" heritage. My great-grandfather fled slavery in Florida and went to live in the everglades with the Seminoles. My grandfather was the product of his marriage with my Great-Grand-mother who was Seminole. My grandmother's family were slaves and that is the side of the family where all of the light eyes seem to pop up. Of course we are all in denial. There is even a white family that my grandmother's family had been close to. My Grandmother made dresses for them. My mother received all the "used" ball gowns, which made her the "belle" of the ball at the "Negro" functions. I even have a set of Limoge China, which was left to my Grandmother by this family.

For us, I just want my adopted child to look reasonably similar to my bio son. Between my Dh and I there is a lot of leeway from brown to white---but even though I am brown skinned, I looked somehow mixed and my DS looks---well I am not sure---but definitely mixed---so if we adopt a child that does not look like there is any mixture there---it will stick out in the family. That is my only issue. Its really not color--its looking like the child belongs in the family to casual observers. I don't want my child to be forced to discuss adoption everyday if he or she does not want to.

The family stories are so interesting. Its also nice to be able to discuss such a "taboo" subject.

Lexie

[Linny]

I would like to add that I feel so priviledged to read many of your stories from your family's histories.
I guess I would be the exception.... I (and some others in my family tree) strongly suspect that even though I have the white skin, there is the strong possibility of African American roots woven throughout. Such are some of our features (even more prominent in my ancestors than in me)...that several of us have discussed the possible family roots.
While there have been a few historians in the family.....I suspect they were not privy (or wanted to research) the possibility of having African ancestry. Gee....some of us would love to know!!!!

So, I'm the exception too. I even considered having the blood analysis conducted to give more information; but understood that it only said 'what one was not, not what more possibilities one was'

If anyone has any good reference books in research of this, I'd love to have some suggestions.......

And, as far as anyone wanting to know about their ancestry, for purposes of scholarships and such....well.......to say they should be ashamed of themselves, is putting it lightly!

Sincerely,

Linny

[BethanyB]

As far as not wanting to acknowledge white people in a black family, I took it to mean married into the family. Not through slavery. I have black, phillipino, and hispanic family through marriage and have NO problem acknowleding them. In fact I am very proud to have such a multi cultural family.

I just know that if I said, "I have more black people in my family than I care to acknowledge" there would be people all over me. That is why I was curious as to what that meant.

How many white people do you know that will admit that they have black people in their family through slavery?

If I knew of it, I certainly would have no problem with it. I can't and won't feel guilty for something I didn't do. I don't know much of my family past my Great Grandmother.

There is a difference when an AA adopts a child compared to when a CC person adopts an AA child. You are looked at as doing an honorable thing. We are looked at as doing a job to help clean up our community

Quite the opposite I think. No one in my family looked at it that way. Most people I know probably wonder why the race of my child doesn't matter to me. I don't need my child to look like me and that is the bottom line. I think people think I'm doing an hororable thing by adopting from the foster care system but I don't think race has anything to do with it.

I also don't think the situation is all that different from CC people adopting children of color, because one of the main concerns is the child not looking like the adoptive family. We don't want to have to explain to the WORLD that our child is adopted. Even though it's not a secret, we don't want to be aproached by every stranger at the mall about our child because of them looking different than us. This issue crosses cultural lines. We should be here to support each other, not to compare who's situation is worse.

I feel like Lisa's situation can be related to by many of us here who want our adopted children to be loved and accepted by the people in our lives as well as society. We don't want strangers to think we had affairs with other men simply because our spouses are the same color as us but our childs color is different. It's universal, nomatter what color you are. The issues are the issues as far as I'm concerned. But again, JMHO

[Jensboys]

I am finding this discussion so interesting. And I can completely understand the perspective of NOT wanting to agknowledge the part of an ancestory that more than likely came from forced sexual contact.

I wanted to bring up the issue of "size" prejudice/concern within aa circles and wondered if any of our aa forum members were wanting to comment on this. For example, our boys birth families HAVE commented to us on the coloring of each others families in a negative light (there is a certain level of animosity between them) and on their own coloring (lighter as each side claims) in a positive light. And commented on the coloring of the boys as compared to each other.

But they BOTH have ALSO commented on the size of each other in a negative fashion. Both families are obese. I mean every single member we have met, or seen pictures of, are very large people, including our boys' siblings. Our kids are extremely fit, athletic and without a scrap of fat on them. I have sometimes felt the need to explain that I am NOT starving them to death. I cannot determine whether they consider the kids body size a positive or a negative. Does anyone have any input on this? Is it related to class/socio-ecnomic status within some aa circles, with predetermined stereo-types, as well as coloring?

Jen

[sugarbabysmommy]

Thanks for putting these posts out here, truly thanks.

[Sleeplvr]

I think size is related to socioeconomic status. I know that in my family portion control in food was always a concern. My mother used to watch every bite of food I put in my mouth. But she didn't always have food to eat when she was growing up. She died when I was 25 and she would probably beat me if she saw how big I was now. There was always a distinction between sloppy fat and neat fat. Neat fat was when you took care of yourself. If you dressed beautifully and had lots of self confidence you do not have to worry about your weight. After my mother died I had other family members take over as the food police. I know that some family members were concerned that I wouldn't get a good husband if I got too big. But in the end they said I could handle the extra pounds because I was pretty. Pretty trumps fat anyday.

But in general AA people are more accepting of larger people. They prefer to see women with more meat on their bones. This same thing applies to Hispanic families. In Africa if you have extra weight on you are seen as being wealthy. It means you have the money to buy all the food that you want. So maybe some of this transferred to the new world with the slaves.

I know when we got our little boy my in-laws were concerned about how skinny his was. They love fat babies. They think something is wrong with skinny ones. But I think that transcends racial lines. I have noticed at the daycare that most of the babies there are borderline or obese.

[LisaCA]

Originally Posted by BethanyB

I just know that if I said, "I have more black people in my family than I care to acknowledge" there would be people all over me. That is why I was curious as to what that meant.

actually what I said was "...way more whites in the family tree than we're comfortable acknowledging ". This is not the same as "more black people in my family than I care to acknowledge". If you said exactly what I said substituting black for white, I'd know what you meant exactly-there are some folks in your family that have some issues, the end.

and the question still stands: how many white people do you know that will admit that they have black people in their family thru slavery (and I would add, beyond). This is not to imply that you personally would have an issue with it, just the larger white population of the united states.

much of the white heritage in black families arrived after slavery. The economic oppression placed black women in very subservient positions to those in authority (whites) and led to many of the same issues that happened in slavery. the end of slavery did not mean the end to severe socioeconomic oppression by whites. You do what you need to in order to support your family or keep your job, and you don't report rapes or sexual harrassment because the police are white.

and there were those relationships that were loving and within the bonds of marriage, but they were few and far between. The laws of the US and individuals states made it difficult to impossible for these relationships to be sanctioned by the govt.

and someday, when I have the energy, I'll explain why I believe the situation of colorism is not the same as transracial adoption. There are a few broad similarities in my opinion, but many more crucial differences.


the size issue is definitely socioeconomic. dd's bfamily has no problem with her skinny size (as of yesterday 29 inches and less than 18.5 lbs). that's just her body type, petite. In many poorer families, a plump baby indicates you're taking good care of your child, feeding them well and taking care of their needs before your own. Which is why maury povich could have all those shows on obese babies and children (all races represented but mostly poorer folks). If you listened to those women (my dad loves this show so I was forced to watch when I went to visit), the comments were basically "I take care of my child. I let him eat what he wants and I give him good food."

when we went to visit bfamily, they live in the south side of chicago and many of the kids friends are not well off at all. They were shocked at what I feed dd (yogurt for breakfast, lots of fruit and veggies, no meat,) and were also shocked that I wouldn't give her juice or "red drink" which was some sort of kool-aid type of beverage. Bdad's family was appalled that dd didn't have bones for teething. it's a socioeconomic thing.

[lisa in venice]

So many AA families struggle with poverty and it is not that long ago meant not enough food to eat. Having a plump wife and chubby chidlren was a sign of success. Also lower quality food which was generally used for the slaves became our traditional food, starches and high fat meats became staples. Lastly at least in my family we are only a couple of generations off the farm. People who work the land CAN eat a whole lot more. Portions are based on folks who work 12-16 hours a day in the field.

There is a feeling that if you are "doing right" by your family they will be larger. I remember visiting relatives the year after we had gotten married and the Kudos I got because my dh had gained weight. Thius came from all of the folks who were on me my entire life for being so thin .

lisa

[Jensboys]

Any suggestions on how to address that (as I cringe at a picture I sent TODAY of my 9 year old son laying on the beach sucking his tummy in trying to show off his muscles and instead looking positively boney???)???

Our boys eat healthy food and lots of it. They are just really active, athletic and in fabulous shape (WAYYYYY better than me I might add) ... Is this something that they will just have to adjust to? Its also been interesting trying to get our boys to see past the pictures of their cousins. Because all their cousins are obese the boys tend think they "dont know how to eat properly" or "dont know how to play sports" "how come bmom lets bsister eat crap that makes her fat" etc etc etc . Really its a prejudice that goes both ways ...

Jen

[kiwi]

Ok, I've been following this thread from the beginning and just have to post my two bits.

The question was along the lines of adopting a child with similar skin tone as yourself or other (adopted) children and any issues associated with a child that looks different. I'm CC, French and probably Italian ancestry, so I have darker hair and skin than most, but nothing out of the ordinary. My husband is polynesian. His mom is quite white (red hair, green eyes) and his dad is full Fijian. Now, there is no question to me that original island settlers came from Africa, especially given my FIL's dark chocolate skin and kinky, course black hair. DH is much lighter than his dad, has auburn, wavy hair, light brown eyes and at 6'2" and almost 300 lbs. is considered the short skinny kid when he plays rugby with his Tongan friends. He's obviously got half his mother.

DH hasn't had much experience with prejudice (though a girl he dated once admitted her parents didn't like him because he was Mexican) but he has felt out of place with his mom on occasion. For example: he used to work in the same office building as her and came to take her out to lunch once. So here's his middle age mom getting picked up by this burly, hunky very much younger man and everyone she works with just went until she introduce her son. "Oh, this is your SON, of course"

So, here's my thing. With children on the horizion for us, I don't know what to expect as far as skin tone. I'm not so worried anymore about what other Polynesians will think, because interracial marriage is so very common in the culture. I am, however concerned about all the other ethnicities that DH and FIL have been mistaken for making whatever assumptions or prejudice along with my own dealing with people not certain if such a dark child (depending on how the genes work out) belongs to my husband and I. I suppose I don't have much to contribute, just voicing that this issue touches many cultural boundaries.

Oh, in polynesian cultures, if you weigh less than 180, they'll feed you until you can't stand; size is a nearly comical point of pride.

[Sleeplvr]

Weight is also determined by what region you live in the country too. Since I live in the south most social functions revolve around food. If you have a party and run out of food...your name is mud for years. The southern diet in general is terrible. Because there was so much poverty in the south the style of eating has transcended socioeconomic lines. Rich people eat fried chicken just like the poor people. It has been a struggle to re-educate people on the proper way to eat. We will throw a stick of butter in just about anything and then fry it. I am so guilty. I have all of Paula Deen's cookbooks.

I have a sister-in-law that moved out to California for about 20 years. Her kids were skinny because they were born there and learned the california way of eating. Now that they are back living in Georgia they are starting to gain weight because they are now eating the way Southerners eat.

[Jensboys]

Dont get me wrong -- being a west coaster , I am glad my kids are in shape and healthy, and I am not going to fatten them up and give them a life long legacy of health problems because of a perception that chubby is better. More than that -- I am not sure I COULD fatten them up. The kids love vegies, healthy foods etc AND are incredibly active -- I might have to introduce NINTENDO!!!! into their lives or something

BUT I do want to make sure that the bparents understand that the kids are loved, healthy, well fed and doing ok ... And I realize that MY perceptions of "healthy" are completely different than THEIR perceptions of the same.

This, again, is an amazing discussion. Thank You!!!

Jen

[MMC66]

I read the posts on size in th AA community, then went on to do something else, then felt the need to share my thoughts. But I always say - this is my opinion, you generally get what you pay for (do the math )

Anyway, I worked as a health care provider in the south exclusively with the AA community. These were not educated people and the vast majority of adults and teens were overweight. BUT they were all very aware of the health risks associated with being overweight. Many had family members die young from the complications of stroke, heart disease and diabetes. I think there are very few people left in the western world who think obesity is a sign of health.

That being said, the black community doesn't obscess with thinness the way the white community does which is a good thing when it comes to self image, especially for young girls. Your skinny AA kids may get a raised eyebrow from their larger AA family members but at the end of the day, they know that obesity is a health risk.

Just had to throw in my humble .02

Martha

[kelleymac]

Lisa:

I'm trying really, really hard not to be offended by this thread, but to genuinely understand.

You made two comments that seem to be contradictory to me and I'm sure I'm just missing the point of one (or both). In your first post, you say that the issue of hair and skin tone is so important in the AA community. Later, you say that AA accept "all" as black if there is a single drop of "black blood."

Can you explain what seems to me to be a contradiction?

I'm also unclear about why an AA couple adopting a child of markedly different skin tone is different than a CC adopting a child of another race. Aren't you faced with the same questions that we are? I hear you saying a very similar thing to my husband and I about our next adoption. We want another child of the same racial background as our son so that he will feel more "connected" to his sibling. There is a part of him we will never be able to fully share or understand since we're white.

Your comment about the differences made me feel as though you weren't interested in hearing the parallel at all. As though I had nothing to offer you in terms of perspective on this issue.

Kelley

[MMC66]

I think this thread is siply a discussion about some really complicated issues related to AA adoption and simply being AA. I guess I sound preachy, your points are very good. So far this thread has done an awesome job of discussing some really controversial topics. It could really easily become contemptuous. I guess if I were you I'd try to weed out what might be helpful to you and "file" the rest

Martha