[Sleeplvr]

I read the following article a few weeks ago and it validated my thoughts on the importance of names in the AA community. My family and friends have been very concerned on whether a name will hold a child back. Here’s the research to back up their fears.
When we were choosing names my 21 year old niece took a particular interest in taking part. She was calling daily to make sure we didn't pick out anything crazy or old-fashioned. We didn't mind her interest because we understood her situation. She had one of those awful names where her parents took her fathers name and added some letters to it to make it a girl’s name. It is so awful that at college her friends were calling her by her first initial. She has made the decision to use her middle name when she starts looking for jobs after she finishes college. She's afraid that she won't get interviews if she uses her first name.

What are your thoughts on this article?

UF Researcher: Teachers May Slight Students With Exotic Names
GAINESVILLE, Fla. --- What’s in a name? Quite a lot for black students with exotic names who do not make the grade in school and are often overlooked by gifted programs, a new University of Florida study finds.
Da’Quan or Damarcus, for example, are more likely to score lower on reading and mathematics tests and are less likely to meet teacher expectations and be referred to gifted programs than their siblings with more common names such as Dwayne, said David Figlio, a UF economist who did the research.
“This study suggests that the names parents give their children play an important role in explaining why African-American families on average do worse because African-American families are more inclined than whites or Hispanics to give their children names that are associated with low socio-economic status,” Figlio said.
Such boys and girls suffer in terms of the quality of attention and instruction they get in the classroom because teachers expect less from children with names that sound like they were given by parents with lower education levels, and these lower expectations become a self-fulfilling prophecy, he said.
“When you see a particular name, like David or Catherine, you internalize it in a different way than a name such as LaQuisha,” said Figlio, whose findings appear in a working paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research. “And it could be that teachers start to make inferences about a student’s parents, the parent’s education level and the parents’ commitment to their children’s education based on the names the parents give their children.”
To measure a name’s socio-economic status, Figlio studied birth certificate data to determine the most frequent name attributes given by mothers who were high school dropouts. Most commonly, these names began with certain prefixes, such as “lo,” “ta,” and “qua.” They ended with certain suffixes, such as “isha” and “ious,” included an apostrophe or were particularly long, with several low-frequency consonants, and were given overwhelmingly by poorly educated black women, he said.
Using information on 55,046 children from 24,298 families with two or more children enrolled in a large Florida school district from 1994-95 through 2000-01, Figlio studied national reading and mathematics test scores and grade transcripts to determine who was promoted to the next grade or referred to gifted programs. Comparing pairs of siblings, Figlio found teachers treat children within the same family differently depending on whether their name connoted low socio-economic status, resulting in discrepancies in academic performance.
A boy named Damarcus, for example, was 2 percent less likely than his brother Dwayne to be referred to a gifted program, even with identical test scores, he said.
“The black-white test score gap has been a persistent issue in American education for decades, despite the fact that African-Americans and white children are receiving increasingly similar education,” he said. “Our study shows that names are partly to explain for this gap.”
Although giving a child name associated with low socio-economic status accounts for only about 15 percent of the black-white test score gap, this is a more significant amount than the effect of dramatic reductions in class size found in other studies, teachers’ years of experience or whether teachers have bachelor’s or master’s degrees, Figlio said.
The opposite results were found with Asian names, said Figlio, who presented his paper to the American Economic Association in Philadelphia in January. Students with Asian-sounding names were more likely to be recommended for gifted programs than siblings with common American names and similar test scores, he said.
Names are important because they can reveal a parent’s educational level and parental aspirations, and help to mold a person’s identity, becoming information that people use in forming expectations about a child, Figlio said. “On one level people are aware of this because the No. 2 segment of the book sales market is baby name books, after Bibles,” he said.
In the African nation of Ghana, people recognize the power of names and take the choice away from parents altogether, Figlio said. Children receive one of only seven boys’ or girls’ names, depending on the day of the week they were born, he said.
David Autor, an economics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said Figlio’s research is provocative and persuasive.
“While other prominent researchers have argued that children who are given exotic names do not suffer for their parent’s choice, it is hard to dismiss the finding that even among sibling pairs, children with exotic names fare worse in school and are less likely to be classified as bright and gifted,” Autor said. “This suggests that value-neutral cultural choices, such as baby name, may have important economic consequences.”

[PetersMom]

When we were naming our children, we chose names that would not hinder them finding a job when they are 22 year old college graduates. We chose names that they would not have to explain, pronounce, or spell for the rest of their lives. We chose traditional names, but not names that were overused. Peter and Caroline are nice names, but not so overused. We also did not go with the trendy names.

I think the article brings up some valid issues that parents need to consider when naming their children. In fact, one of the major news networks, I think it was ABC's 20/20 that brought up this same topic. They put two identical resumes on the job boards (monster.com type). One resume had the LaQuisha Johnson type name and the other had something like Karen Johnson. Karen's resume received a significantly higher number of responses than LaQuisha's did. Their report indicated that the LaQuisha type names seemed too militantly ethnic and they simply didn't want to have to deal with it as an employer. Like it or not, people do make conscious and sub-conscious judgements based on the way one presents themselves, whether in dress, name, attitude, or language skills. Right or wrong, it's life.

[kllee4]

I understand that this is life, but does that mean that it's right? And does it also mean that a parent should have to avoid certain names for fear that their child will be discriminated against? And won't they already have a chance of discrimination if Michael Lee (my husband's name) shows up for an engineering job and is NOT Asian but AA and the interviewer is shocked and admits that he assumed that he was Asian(this has happened)? I understand that we live in a racist society but what about situations in which the father has an "ethnic" sounding name and decides to name his son after himself? And what does this have to do with intelligence? Just because someone has a particular name, does that mean that it may hinder their progress through life and may impede their path to a certain level of success.

I must admit that as a teacher working in an inner city school, it was often difficult to pronounce many of my students' names and I would feel badly for those children learning to write and spell their names for the first time, but this was more due to the longer names, not so much judging them for the choice of name that they were given. I think the real problem is the fact that we live in a society that will judge a child based on their name. It is discriminating, disgusting and wrong. And although a Karen may receive a job interview over a LoQuisha, If Karen is also AA and shows up for the interview, will that be a strike against her if a CC Karen is also going for the same job? What a world we live in!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kelli]

klee4, you took the words out of my mouth!

Originally Posted by kllee4

And won't they already have a chance of discrimination if Michael Lee (my husband's name) shows up for an engineering job and is NOT Asian but AA and the interviewer is shocked and admits that he assumed that he was Asian(this has happened)?

It has happened to me before also. I've been mistaken for an Irish girl on the phone more times then I can count. I've heard the comment "well you don't sound black . . " more then a few times too. The assumption being that black always, or should always, "sound" a certain way.

And what does this have to do with intelligence? Just because someone has a particular name, does that mean that it may hinder their progress through life and may impede their path to a certain level of success

.

IMO, it has little to do with how intelligent a child is, or will be, and everything to do with how they are perceived, taught, and treated by other people.

I think the real problem is the fact that we live in a society that will judge a child based on their name. It is discriminating, disgusting and wrong.

Amen!

In fact, one of the major news networks, I think it was ABC's 20/20 that brought up this same topic. They put two identical resumes on the job boards (monster.com type). One resume had the LaQuisha Johnson type name and the other had something like Karen Johnson. Karen's resume received a significantly higher number of responses than LaQuisha's did.

Petersmom, I saw this same segment on 20/20 and was just as disgusted by it as this article.

Kelli

[missw005]

All right, so what do you do if you adopted your AA children when they were too old to have their name changed? Or you don't want to change their name (even though you don't like it) because it's the name their bfamily chose for them and you don't want to incur your child's anger later in life for changing their given name?

I was just discussing this very issue with a friend who is open to trans-racial adoption - but is not too wild with some of the names she's seen on the special needs website photolistings. She commented, "So, what? We change their middle name and call them that name? They'll always be called their first (legal) name in school and at the dr's office. Or we come up with a nickname? Same problem! It's like you'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place!"

I empathized as my boys' names are somewhat different - quite unique - but not overly exotic or bizarre. And now that they've lived with me for a couple years, their names really fit their personalities somehow. But I see her point as well.

So as adoptive parents, there's not really much we can do about it, right?

[leaabc123]

I think that kids will need to be educated about how some people in the world will see them, either because of racism or preconceived notions.

If we are able to adopt our girls in the future, our plan is to change their middle names. Then they can choose how to present themselves in school etc.

My complete first name was verry annoying to me as I was growing up. Once I got t highschool, I shortened it on all of the paperwork and didn't think anything of it. All of my diplomas and jobs have always had my shortened version, even though my driver's license has my full name on it.

When I was in grad school, I taught preschool in a primarily african-american and low income area. Some of these kids had the stereotypical Loqueisha and Ta'quan type names and I could see how not only their names but some of their parents' attitudes (some not all) were already setting them up to fail.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by leaabc123

I think that kids will need to be educated about how some people in the world will see them, either because of racism or preconceived notions.

I agree. . . and the judging by "name" thing is just one more thing added to the list. As a matter of fact, I just said something similiar in another discussion on another board and almost all the CC parents (a few with AA children), felt this point of view was fostering AA racism They vehemently disagreed! Of course I know differently from experience, and from the way my parents raised us, but apparently this notion is still a little too "sensitive" for some to consider.

Kelli

[Linny]

I can see this going both ways. Yes, I agree, I think it can definately be a racist thing for sure; but I've also seen CC people with names that should never have left the books, IMO....and the grown ups are left to deal with that name forever.

I can tell you that there have been some VERY different names I wanted to call our children. Most of my kids have different names----or so they were somewhat different at the time of their naming. Some of those names have become more popular since the children were named; and so they don't seem so different anymore.

But, I have to tell you that I have seen some names that were down-right horrid; and you have to wonder just what the parents were thinking when they gave that child their name!?!?!?!?!

In the end, I honestly think some people don't give much thought at all about the name of their child....what others will say, how the child will be perceived once grown, etc. Someone once told me that before we chose a name, we should yell that name out the back door.....just to get a feel of what it would seem like. (Not a bad idea, actually.)
But then, sometimes you meet people who insist that because they had to carry a specific name (never mind the fact that the name was horrid to begin with) they feel they have to pass the same burden to their child!!!!!

As my oldest daughter has said, "Sometimes it's like the parents did no more than look at a bottle of catsup and say, 'HEY, there's a new name....let's call her 'Catsup'!!!!' Sad to say that people shouldn't judge by a name alone.....but I daresay some kids get the worst of life, because someone wanted to be 'too different' and 'out there'. KWIM?

And sometimes, what's worse (and I don't mean to offend anyone here, to each his own).........but some of the names from TV shows and such, are a little much. Can't tell you how many people have decided to name their child a certain name, because some celebrity chose it, or some producer liked it and they watched the show....and VIOLA!, the child lives with the name AND the SHOW for their entire lives! (sighing for some......)

Just my opinion.....

Sincerely,

Linny

[mamacrina]

Originally Posted by Kelli

It has happened to me before also. I've been mistaken for an Irish girl on the phone more times then I can count. I've heard the comment "well you don't sound black . . " more then a few times too. The assumption being that black always, or should always, "sound" a certain way.

You too, huh? Sigh and LOL

Originally Posted by Kelli

IMO, it has little to do with how intelligent a child is, or will be, and everything to do with how they are perceived, taught, and treated by other people.

Yes, and that is truly a shame.

Originally Posted by Linny

Someone once told me that before we chose a name, we should yell that name out the back door.....just to get a feel of what it would seem like.

That's exactly what we did with our list of names...well...not out the back door per se..but still. It works. Some names didn't make the cut. And then there's the "initial" issue. If you don't watch it, you can unwittingly spell something out you hadn't planned.

[leaabc123]

This reminds me of something else that happened. Earlier in the year, we got a newborn as an emergency placement, he left after 2 weeks. What sticks out was his name, it wasn't unusual at all.

In fact it was a biblical name that is used enough not to be too unusual. The mom was a teenager. What struck me was that the name was misspelled.

The baby's worker told me that the mom had asked her caseworker how to spell the name and the worker told her to spell it how she wanted. Now, that would have been fine if it was a different spelling phonetically but no, it was just wrong.

If you looked at it on paper, you would pronounce it differently due to a few missing letters.

I think people, of all races, defnitely need to think more when choosing names. They need to see how the name sounds altogether, see what the initials spell out, etc.

It is definitely wrong to judge people on a name but it is a reality today. It is also a reality within the AA community or there wouldn't be the "LaQuisha" jokes that we hear now and then.

[MNelson]

I agree that it is a problem, but what has to change? Are we to go back to the immigrant era of the late 1800's and early 1900's when ethnic sounding names are changed at the docks?

Although giving a child name associated with low socio-economic status accounts for only about 15 percent of the black-white test score gap,...

If the problem is such that it has less impact than other factors, then which do you think we should "fix"? It's also unclear from the study whether the total 15% is just from the comparison of sibs with different name bases (the sibling study), or whether it also includes test score reductions due to actual social economic status.

What better way to change perceptions than to help children succeed regardless of their name? Provide an opportunity for people to meet a successful LoQuisha or Darrell (a more common name where I live that is elsewhere often associated with being a "hick", and also the subject of jokes).

I happen to be CC with a somewhat AA sounding name. I have often been met with surprise when people meet me in person. But if my name held me back, I have never been aware of it.

I'll agree that names should be chosen carefully as to not be embarrassing, in either the name itself or the initials. I'm just averse to avoiding names that are ethnically important to a family or community for the purpose of blending in.

That said, and to clarify as to not be a deemed a hypocrite, I swore with all the trouble that I had with others misspelling and mispronouncing my name that I personally would never put a child of mine through that I just feel that if it's important to someone, they shouldn't make the decision solely based on the predudice of others.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by Linny

As my oldest daughter has said, "Sometimes it's like the parents did no more than look at a bottle of catsup and say, 'HEY, there's a new name....let's call her 'Catsup'!!!!'

LOL, Linny, your daughter is funny and correct!

Kelli

[kllee4]

Leaabc123,

When teaching I had also seen names that I would assume was "meant" to be something else but possibly the parents either didn't know how to spell it or they intentionally wanted it spelled a certain name (which would be unbelievable to me but it has happened).

Case in point, I had a student whose name was Justise. Now I pronounced it Just eese almost like the ise in Denise not thinking that the name was Justice. The most embarrassing thing was that somehow the word justice came up in a social studies lesson (I was teaching 3rd grade) and another student pointed out that this was also the girl's name in my class but that it was spelled differently. What pained me was that the next day, the student was silently crying in the bathroom and a classmate came to get me. I sent everyone else on to lunch and had a talk with her. She went home and asked her mother and she was cursed out because she asked her mother if she spelled her name that way or if she even knew how to spell (I found out later that her mother is somewhat illiterate and her daughter was reading at a higher level than she.). So, she was embarrassed that her mother did not know how to spell. I had to reassure her that this was the perfect opportunity to understand why an education was so important and to remind her that her mother loved her very much and THAT was the reason she pushed her so hard in school. I encouraged her to always do her best and to go to her mother and apologize for possibly insinuating that her mother was dumb. She agreed and the mother called and thanked me. My student did tell me, however, that as soon as she was old enough, she was going to have her name spelled correctly legally.

I will say that I am embarrassed that I am now seeing young AA children with the names of popular alcoholic drinks.

[MNelson]

What a sweet story kklee

After rereading my post, I just want to make clear that I'm not advocating the "catsup" names I do feel that parents have a grave responsibilty in choosing wisely. I just have a problem with choosing names for the purpose of sounding race neutral, as the study suggests would improve test scores.

[Cobb]

I had posted last night, then deleted it because I wanted to review what I wrote in this morning (it was seriously late for me... )

Figured the first part did express what I was thinking, but added clarification to the editing. Just wanted to explain for those of you who might have read it in your email, then were confused when it wasn't here.

I agree that we should carefully consider the impact our children's names will have on them. We had a really hard time coming up with a middle name for our daughter. For awhile, I was set on Nicole (this was 10 years ago)... fortunately, dh knew of another Anna Nicole and we continued on our seach... *whew*

At the same time though, I read this article and the important point that I get from it is that we need to double time teaching our children not to judge others based upon such limited information. The lesson we learn should not be to avoid certain names, but rather to stop attaching negative connotations to particular names.

I have to wonder what our conclusions would be if the same study were done on androgynous names. If research were to show that having a feminine vs. masculine name limits your opportunities, would we we conclude that parents shouldn't name their sons Taylor, Cameron, Sydney, etc... just in because your Morgan might someday be assumed to be a Fairchild vs. a Freedman? The research provides us with a statistic, but we are the ones who ascribe meaning. So, rather than using this information as a reason to change a child's name, we should use it to acknowledge that there are still many sypmtoms of a much deeper problem.

IMO

Just realized... I don't buy the conclusion that the reason the names are judged is because they cause people to assume the child is from a lower socio-economic status. We all know that there are "CC" names that recieve their fair share of flak, so if they were only looking at socio-economic prejudices, a comparison of the prospects of a Billy Bob vs. a Michael would be included. Instead, I think they use the socio-economic flag to try to avert our attention from the fact that SOME teachers, employers, etc. still discriminate based on race. IMO, the names mentioned cause people to assume the children are AA followed by the assumption that if they're AA they must be from a lower economic bracket. Shouldn't we be outraged by this implication?

New part... I agree with Plareb, this doesn't mean that I think the "catsup" names are great...

Leenab, I can't believe a caseworker wouldn't help this young mother with the spelling, especially when she so specifically ASKED!!! I would take that as a indication that the young lady WANTED her child's name to have a correct spelling - why in the world wouldn't someone help her with that.

Finally, dh and I both have "uniquely" spelled names, although they are phonetically correct, so I too avoided naming my child something that had an untraditional spelling so that she could avoid going through the explanations I did.

Cobb <---- who also sounds Irish on the phone, but is in fact, SCOTCH-Irish... (If I wouldn't have waffled at the last minute about changing my name to my hubby's, I wouldn't have that problem. )