[chanibelle]

Hi all,

I was reading a post where a cc couple are having a hard time trying to understand why their parents dont want them to adopt a hispanic/black child. Then I read another post where a cc woman didnt want to accept a full AA child only a biracial child,but then " changed her mind" to adopt a full AA child. There was also another post where a cc woman's family member was praying that the adoptive child she was adopting would be born hispanic and not black. I guess I just dont understand it. My question (and please be honest with me )is why are people going to India,China,Latin America to adopt children of color when there are children of color in THIS country? Why is everything "better than black" or "anything but black" more acceptable in this country? Why did I read a post on this website where a women said her mother was more accepting of a dark child from India,but would not have been accepting of a Black child from America? I know its a complicated question, one that goes back and one that still hurting in this country regarding race relations between black and whites,but please someone explain it to me! Im not a momma yet, I just dont understand!

[bromanchik]

I can remember as a kid first learning about prejudice. I can remember asking, "So some people hate other people they don't even know because of what they look like?" I asked this over and over again. It blew my mind. It still does.

[Missy M]

Why is everything "better than black" or "anything but black" more acceptable in this country? Why did I read a post on this website where a women said her mother was more accepting of a dark child from India,but would not have been accepting of a Black child from America?


This is an age old question that I've asked myself millions of times... I am the AA mother of 3 bi-racial now adult kids; my d/h is CC, our girls "look" Hispanic and heres a scenerio from our past: Our oldest daughter attended UCLA, she had no problems until I flew to Cali for a visit. After I left three different PROFESSORS...very educated folks approached her to say they didn't know she was "1/2 Black." The point is they didn't know WHAT she was and assumed she was either Hispanic or Italian (our last name is) and that was OK, and didn't seem to matter; it was the "black" thing they were shocked at. Theres this degree of seperation when it comes to black. One even commented "you don't *sound* Black."
I really have a problem with the anything but black in adoption forums; I wouldn't want my child placed in that enviorment no matter what color they happen to be.

[Shoshana]

I'm very sorry to admit this but here's the scenario that occurred between my mother and me...

I'm a 44-yr-old, single, woman. I chose to adopt from Guatemala for many reasons, primarily because I wanted an infant. When I was starting the process, I looked into Haiti. Ultimately, this wouldn't have been a viable option because the vast majority of orphanages in Haiti are run by Christian missionaries and they do not allow adoptions by non-Christians (I'm a Jew). I won't EVEN go into my thoughts on THAT policy. Anyway, my mother said,

"Promise me you won't adopt a baby from Haiti. It would be respectful to your father and me, after everything we've done for you."

Honestly, tho' I knew she was racist, I couldn't believe my ears. I was stunned and livid.

So I'm ashamed to admit, but these attitudes are alive and well in MY family though they absolutely disgust and anger me.

So why is everything better than black for some people? I think the most honest and generic answer is the ingrained racism in our culture. The specific answer for my mother has to include the above, but it has an added "excuse".

Believe it or not, she didn't used to be this way, at least not blatantly. She did a pretty good job of raising me to not be prejudiced - and although she was probably always racist to an extent, she did a good job of fighting against it.

Until the event. When I was 28, she and my father came to visit me at graduate school. When they flew back home to south Florida, a group of four men apparently followed my parents and the other older couple who picked them up from the airport to my parents driveway - they were all robbed (suitcases, purses, jewelry) - the men were pistol whipped.

I have been totally unable to help her explore how she might have felt if the men had been white. All I can do now is to never keep my mouth shut when I hear my mother make racist comments.

[bumpkin]

I think many parents who raised children inthe 60's and 70's raised their children to not be racist - that all people are equal and that it is wrong to judge people based on the color of their skin. That being said, I think they said these things knowing they were right, but never really having to use this information on a day to day basis - living in a predominantly white community. So that generation grows up (35-55yearsold) and are adopting children who are of color and the older generation is forced to reconcile between what they taught us and what they feel. It's an individual ability to change that makes the difference. Some of the grandparents have really blown past their feelings and actually realized that what they said was, in fact true! and some never do.

My DH and I were just tallking about this the other night, why is it that people seemed to "delight" in the idea of people adopting little girls from China, but not 5 year old AA boy child from the USA. ? I don't know the answer, but one thing we did come up with was that 10 or 15 years ago it would have been unusual in many communities to see caucasian parents with asian children in a restaurant and now it's commonplace, people don't even blink an eye - it seems to be accepted. Maybe 5 years from now the same will be true for families with darker skinned children.

I know racism is still alive, but adoption seems to be breaking barriers every day.

Can't wait to read what others think.

[dadfor2]

hi chanibelle

actually, heres a flip side of your thread. Hope no one gets offended, its not meant to be offensive, but the reality is, there is prejudice out there.

when my wife and i were choosing adoption, at that point, we didnt care what race the child was.

as time went on, and many talks, we decided that all these children will have issues around adoption, and we thought since we were CC, that maybe the child would not feel so isolated, not only being adopted, but also being a different race.

we have alot of AA friends, and our neighborhood is very mixed, so we werent worried about him/her at the time of feeling so out of place.

as time went on, we met with a social worker, and she said that AA kids come with less issues. I couldnt quite understand, and she explained it to me, but it made sence.

she said that AA kids are usually removed from their families much quicker when abuse or neglect is mentioned and that CC kids are removed slower and are exposed to longer abuse and neglect due to people thinking that CC parents will turn around and keep to a service plan.

the reality, it doesnt matter what the race is, if its abuse and neglect then its abuse and neglect and its just some social workers issues.

I hate to say that i understand, because i live in this counrty.

we then decided to adopt AA, (easier, less issues, bring it on...)and as time went on, our two boys were identified and we saw their picture, and we feel in love. They are CC. For us, we felt it was just meant to be.

i just thought id throw that twist in around AA and CC adoptions here.

I know this doesnt answer your post, but its a good question. I have heard that said from parents that will take hispanic but not AA, and i hope someone can explain it to you, because im not sure either.

as for parents going overseas, i do believe, i could be wrong, that they are looking for infants. Most kids in our state are considered 'older children'. And i do believe that their are long waiting lists for parents who are looking for infants in our country. But im not sure how that process works though.

again, i dont know, we decided to adopt 'older kids' from this country and the topic of infants and another country never came up, maybe just for a minute.....lol

dadfor2

[Brat]

I don't have an answer to your post. But I must say that I have had to grow a callous over the sore that developed every time I'd look at an online profile and see a couple list a preference for every combination of every race known to man, except for full AA.

When I look at couple and they are CC, and they say they want a CC child, doesn't bother me a bit. The same for any other couple with the preference for a child who looks like s/he could be theirs.

But since I have been all over the country, I have been to many places where there is not a Latino child for miles. Yet the couple who lives in that community, and who'd say they think their community would be too hard on a AA child, lists a preference for a Latino child. Prejudice against Latinos is alive and well in this country--just look at the legislation that keeps passing.

I know this is judgemental, and I try not to live my life that way. But, y'know, this issue does kind of bother me.

[Cleopatrick]

This whole subject is pretty much one of those things I try hard not to respond to because it disgusts me so bad. Older child and special needs kids get the same ignorant comments and I have a real hard time holding my tongue.

"Yet the couple who lives in that community, and who'd say they think their community would be too hard on a AA child, lists a preference for a Latino child. "

This comment is one of my problems with people that won't adopt an AA child. If you feel your community wouldn't be accepting than move. We bought a house without realizing that we now live in the heart of the militia. All our kids are CC, but I don't want them to learn anything from these people. I won't take my kids to parades around here because of the Wiccan in this area. They actually had a float from one of the churches showing witches being hung and burned because they are so freaked out that there is a Wiccan store in this area. The business's surrounding the store have all put up crosses in their windows so their shoppers will know they good upright Christians who don't truck with those Wiccan people. The KKK and the militia have marches on the court house. This area is so prejudiced it's disgusting and we are desperatly trying to move out of here because we don't want those attitudes to rub off on our kids. If your community can't accept an AA child than maybe it's no place to raise ANY child. Where exactly do you think the next generation of racists is going to come from?

All children are beautiful, all children deserve love, and all children deserve to be loved for exactly who they are. All the comments I hear about kids being the wrong race to adopt, too old, or special needs make me ill. A child is a child is a child and I always figure that it's not the child that's not good enough for the parents, it's the parents that are not good enough for that child.

[Jensboys]

We are a cc couple in a very predominately cc town. We originally were going to adopt from Haiti (and we have two bio kids) but Haiti closed the adoption program at that time due to a coup ... HOWEVER, we envisioned our family with children of African Heritage ... our extended families knew of this and were prepared for it. So ... we specifically applied for African American children. Actually, we werent allowed to only designate that, but when we talked with the social worker, she asked very cautiously if we REALLY meant we would be interested in aa kids. When I said ACTUALLY THAT IS WHAT WE WOULD PREFER (being prepared to parent transracially I would of been very disappointed to end up with a cc child - weird eh?) she was THRILLED to hear it because of those very reasons listed above by others.

We adopted over 4 years ago a sibling group of two AA boys. The most beautiful, wonderful, enriching children in the world, along with our two bio boys as well, of course.

Personally, if someone says that their community wouldnt be accepting of an aa child, but is of another race, they are KIDDING themselves. I would move to the ends of the earth for my boys well being and I would NEVER ever want to live somewhere where people of color werent treated with respect, EVEN if I wasnt part of a multi-racial family.

Is it hard to be a transracial parent? Of course -- but worth it a thousand times over.

[Sharon]

"I would move to the ends of the earth for my boys well being and I would NEVER ever want to live somewhere where people of color werent treated with respect, EVEN if I wasnt part of a multi-racial family."

This is how I feel too. If a community was not appropriate to raise an AA child in, I wouldn't want to raise a CC child there either, or remain there myself. It's hard for me to understand how CC families can openly admit, "Our community would not be a healthy or accepting place to raise an AA child" and still plan to remain there. Who would want to?
I have also felt confused when I see threads debating the morality of choosing a gender, but nobody seems to see any problem with specifying (or excluding) a race.
The whole race issue has always made me very confused and sort of ashamed (stupid, because I haven't done anything wrong). I wish there were some way to eliminate the problem, but it seems so huge and pervasive that nobody knows how to begin. I see it in adoption as well as every other aspect of life. I hate it. I have trouble even thinking about it very much, because it makes me feel very helpless.
~ Sharon

PS Missy, I didn't know your dh was Italian; mine is too.

PPS Shoshana, are Hmong children available for adoption in your community? I am really fascinated with the Hmong culture right now; I read a really cool book called "The spirit catches you and you fall down" and it got me interested in their history and culture, so I started going to their websites and such. I would love to meet some Hmong people some day, but I don't think there are many of them living in Texas.

[redhedded]

transracial adoption but wanted to say thank you to Cleopatrick. You said exactly some of the things that I wanted to say but never really could articulate or get around to. Why would anyone want to raise any child in an environment that encourages hate. Cleo: Also, who knew that there were towns where the Wiccan and militia co-existed; well it does not sound like they co-exist but rather each chooses to stand firm at their lines drawn in the sand. Are you kidding me that businesses place crosses in the window to showcase their alignment with the church? I do not know how you stand it and hope that you are able to find a quick route outta there.

[Cleopatrick]

redheaded, I never thought of that before LOL. We have a Wiccan store that moved into the area several years ago and it's still got everyone in an uproar. I'm actually not kidding about the crosses. Sad, but true. It's a very small town and the only places I've seen that don't have them is the national chain places like McDonalds and Burger King. Then we have militia all over this area. We had the lovely KKK march a few years ago, that just thrilled me to no end I gotta tell ya.

It's a bad area all the way around. We need to move so bad and are having a hard time doing that. Two problems, one being money, lol. We have to get the bills we racked up when we first got married down so we can afford it. We are ALMOST to that point, we should be good to go this December!!! In the mean time I'm researching special ed schools like crazy. My daughter is severelly impaired and right now she goes to a school that is strictly for children with severe problems like autism, paralysis, or cerebal palsy. She takes PT to learn to walk, she eats by tube, and she has the basic abilties of a 6 to 18 month old at age 4. Everyone in the school is her peer. I keep checking and I can't find another school like it in the radius we need to move to be near my hubby's job. Every place I've found so far puts their special ed children in a special classroom in a regular school. That's completely unacceptable. My daughter has never been laughed at or picked on in her life and I'm not opening her up to that. I'm hoping to hear back from the one school district Monday. They said they may be willing to work with me on having her go to the pre-primary school, even though she's too old, because she's at the 6 to 18 month level. I need a long term solution though so I need to talk to her and find out what exactly her future in that district would be.

Sorry, babbling, I'm just so stressed about needing to move that I get to rambling, lol. We need a house that can be converted to handicapped accessible, I need more room for my kids, and I gotta get these kids out of here because I swear the air is poisoned around here and I don't want my kids infected.

[FatBirdy]

chanibelle said:
"Why is everything "better than black" or "anything but black" more acceptable in this country?"

That is the million dollar question.

The roots of this problem lie in the history of this country. African American history has been silenced to a large degree. The simeltaneous rise of freedom and slavery in the USA is 'the great American paradox'. From the origins of New World Salvery, plantation life and slave resistance and the rebellions in antebellum America, the emergence of the American system of apartheid in the era of 'Jim Crow', to the Harlem Renaissance, the Civil Rights Movement and the current economic and political status of Americans of African ancestry...contniue to shape our world today......especially in relation to the question of race and the problem of racism. Speak out against it, fight it and educate yourself and anyone around you that will listen!!

(PS: how do I set up a quote in my post??, thanks)

[Colorbind love]

My father (a sociologist and father to 4 trans-racially adopted children) maintains that its racism, plain and simple. He feels that while it might be a more mild form of racism, its still clearly racism.

He knows this from experience. When my parents first started to adopt, they were working to adopt a Haitian infant. In fact, the birthmother disappeared the day she was due in court to finalize the adoption and devestated them. But, at that point, the adoption agency offered to begin another 9 month process in Haiti, risking another coupe in the meantime, or accept placement of a domestic black baby boy instead. My father had gone with Haiti because he thought his racist mother would be more accepting of a foreign child than a domestic child. But, at that point, he realized that black is black and she wasn't going to be happy, no matter where he adopted from. So, my parents accepted placement of a newborn baby boy from Oklahoma. D will be 13 this May.

Ever since that point, my father has argued that if you aren't willing to adopt a black child domestically but are willing to adopt another minority child from abroad then you have caved to racism.

I, otoh, can see a little more grey in the equation. We were willing to adopt domestically, and black as well. But, we didn't feel that was where our heart was. We felt very strongly that our heart was with African war orphans. And, we felt that even a child in foster care in this country has a better chance than a war or AIDS orphan in Africa. We did adopt black (surprisingly milk chocolate rather than a dark expresso that we originally expected...but after being educated and realizing that Western Africa has a large repatriotated slave population from both the US and the Carribean, it makes sense that he is milk chocolate). We just didn't adopt domestically. Trust me, my son is Mende. He's not biracial at all. But, he came from Western Africa to join his family. And, that is probably where we will go again to adopt our next child.

I actually hear more people go international not because of the child's color but because of a mistrust of domestic adoption, a desire to still adopt a young baby and a desire to most likely have a closed adoption. I've heard a great many IA parents lament not that they didn't want a black child but that they would NEVER choose to adopt domestically for fear of the domestic structures.

[chanibelle]

Thanks everyone for your honest and candid replies to my post. I know its a hard question to answer and maybe there are no concrete answers,but I learned many sides to this issue.
chani