[hrisme]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

How old is Catelyn's baby? I hear this and it sounds like all the propaganda that some adoption "professionals" heap on expectant parents. It also assumes that all teen-age mothers are not going to be the best parent for their baby. It makes me sad. She might have been a really good mother.

Catelyn's baby was, apparently, placed at birth. I haven't watched the entire thing, but suggest before *you* determine if Catelyn would be the best parent for her baby you watch the episode and see that she decided for herself, against her family's will so there was no pressure from them. She has been the only parent on the show who has placed, from what I can tell. Reading the other stories is what makes me sad, parents breaking up, realizing that parenthood isn't a "happily ever after" sort of thing. Granted, reading the summaries probably isn't enough information to really determine anything (especially with the fact that this show is nothing but propeganda in and of itself), but it sounds as though only a couple of the six individuals on the show actually have some semblance of stability in their lives.

Mind you, I am not an adoptive parent. I've provide post adoption support for all members of the triad. I've held hands while mothers sign their rights away and yes, it is the hardest thing they will ever do. I had one first mother describe it as "a fate worse than death", she had placed twins for adoption and then lost a son to a rare blood disorder & felt a greater loss with the adoption than the death. However, even then she did not question that she had done the right thing.

I am in favor of all parents being provided support for whatever decision they choose, parenting or placement. I am in favor of them being given all the information, including information on support if they choose to parent. I am, however, primarily in favor of what is best for the child--and that is not always parenting.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by hrisme

I am, however, primarily in favor of what is best for the child--and that is not always parenting.

Unfortunately too many others are involved in the decision of what is best for the child, not the parents themselves. It is not up to an agency worker, a prospective adoptive parent or the expectant parents own parents to make that decision for them. Unfortunately, it often happens that way.

[manni28]

Unfortunately too many others are involved in the decision of what is best for the child, not the parents themselves. It is not up to an agency worker, a prospective adoptive parent or the expectant parents own parents to make that decision for them. Unfortunately, it often happens that way.

Brenda:

As an adoptive parent ( and adoptee) I have to disagree with you. Most emoms are forced by the bdad or the birth grandparents, not agencies/ aparents. And on the topic of the woman's parent's, how would you like it if your daughter told you she was sixteen and pregnant ? I would be livid! I signed up to raise my child, her siblings and to take care of myself. Not to raise my family and grand babies. I believe if my child has died or is sick, and CAN'T raise their child , it's MY responsibility to raise the kids. But if you find yourself a teen and pregnant, I AM NOT helping you to raise that baby. Let's be honest, it's the grandparents who will be raising the child and to be frank, they did their time! I think it's very selfish to put your parents in that position.

-Manni

[Dickons]

Bromachick,

I agree with you...

Kind regards,
Dickons

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by manni28

Brenda:

As an adoptive parent ( and adoptee) I have to disagree with you. Most emoms are forced by the bdad or the birth grandparents, not agencies/ aparents.

And you got these statistics...where?

Originally Posted by manni28

And on the topic of the woman's parent's, how would you like it if your daughter told you she was sixteen and pregnant ? I would be livid! I signed up to raise my child, her siblings and to take care of myself. Not to raise my family and grand babies. I believe if my child has died or is sick, and CAN'T raise their child , it's MY responsibility to raise the kids. But if you find yourself a teen and pregnant, I AM NOT helping you to raise that baby. Let's be honest, it's the grandparents who will be raising the child and to be frank, they did their time! I think it's very selfish to put your parents in that position.

-Manni

You have every right to how you feel. But that is not how I would handle the situation, nor is it anything I would encourage.

You also assume it would be the grandparents raising the child. That is not always the case. I would love to know where you get your information.

[zxczxcasdasd]

I'm not sure what my parents' reaction would have been because we never had to make that call, but my husband did find himself there with his parents when he was 17 and just barely starting his senior year of high school. After the shock, and all sorts of possible game plans running through their heads for fleeting moments when their world was still spinning, their clarity came with the conclusion that if the child was their son's then he/she (turned out to be a he) would most certainly be fab-u-lous and they would give whatever help was needed. They helped DH with significant parenting support for J until DH graduated from college and with his first great self-supporting job, he was ready to step fully into the role unaided by them except as loving grandparents. I am SO glad they did and that I was lucky enough to step into the role of Mom for him after so much love and support had gotten him through to that point.

I'm not saying that parents are obligated to help raise their grandkids if their kids have an unplanned pregnancy, as everyone is entitled to choose to parent or not for themselves, including grandparents. What I am saying is that it makes me sad that someone would have to place their child for adoption because their family would not be willing to help- not take over, and not do it permanently- just help until the young parent is able to be fully independent. And I am saying I am SO glad that DH's parents did that for him. And they're glad too because their assumption that J would be FAB-U-LOUS since he was their son's kid was totally true! None of us can imagine our family without him. None of us. And the poor unfortunate child of teenage parents graduated from HS with a 4.0 GPA, is on academic scholarship at a good university, is a congressional intern (disctrict office currently, will be in DC office next summer) and applying for an appointment to West Point.

Teen pregnancy is never the ideal, should not be glorified or pursued and I know that a lot of teen parents just don't mature to the extent that DH did (he was AWESOME) when they find themselves suddenly expectant parents. I'm just saying it's not automatically a tragedy, nor is it a punishment to the parents, especially if they take the perspective that my in-laws did...that they just get to meet and love their sure-to-be-fabulous grandchild sooner than they had expected. And having teen parents doesn't doom you to failure and tragedy. The ultimate outcome is determined by what people make of the situation afterwards, and parenting --helped by grandparents-- is not the stupid or selfish choice, or automatically not in the best interests of the baby.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by zxczxcasdasd

IThe ultimate outcome is determined by what people make of the situation afterwards, and parenting --helped by grandparents-- is not the stupid or selfish choice, or automatically not in the best interests of the baby.

I would like to add that I was 32 when I parented my first. My Mom and Dad's help was, and still is, invaluable to me. My children feel loved beyond measure. I am glad for the village that helped me raise my children.

[legal]

"I would be livid! I signed up to raise my child, her siblings and to take care of myself. Not to raise my family and grand babies. But if you find yourself a teen and pregnant, I AM NOT helping you to raise that baby. Let's be honest, it's the grandparents who will be raising the child and to be frank, they did their time"

Oh my Manni- I absolutely found raising my family to be the most wonderful time ever spent and would be the very first in a LONG line of loving family members to step up under ANY circumstances. Did your TIME? sounds like prison. my goodness.

[manni28]

Unfortunately too many others are involved in the decision of what is best for the child, not the parents themselves. It is not up to an agency worker, a prospective adoptive parent or the expectant parents own parents to make that decision for them. Unfortunately, it often happens that way.

Brenda:

You said it right here. Everyone knows it's usually the bdad or bgrandparents who put pressure on the emom.

You have every right to how you feel. But that is not how I would handle the situation, nor is it anything I would encourage. You also assume it would be the grandparents raising the child. That is not always the case. I would love to know where you get your information

.


Brenda:

Who else is going to raise that baby beside the grandparents? The mom is sixteen; has no college degree( or high school dipolma) and still lives at home...so go figure! How is she and the bdad going to afford rent, childcare( she can't expect one of her parents to quit their job to raise the baby) and other basic quaitly of life things?

[manni28]

Oh my Manni- I absolutely found raising my family to be the most wonderful time ever spent and would be the very first in a LONG line of loving family members to step up under ANY circumstances. Did your TIME? sounds like prison. my goodness.

Legal:


I think you know what I meant: the parents signed-up to raise their children not their grand babies ( unless it's death or sickness). And once again, I think it's very selfish to put your parents in this position because you ( the child) were being irresponsible. That's a lot to put your parents though!

[julie23]

I think you know what I meant: the parents signed-up to raise their children not their grand babies ( unless it's death or sickness). And once again, I think it's very selfish to put your parents in this position because you ( the child) were being irresponsible. That's a lot to put your parents though!

I "signed-up" to be a mother. If that means temporarily providing assistance to a young mother in a vulnerable situation... well, i guess that's what i signed up for.

i certainly wouldn't agree to RAISE my grandbaby all the way up to 18 years of age... as a matter of fact, I wouldn't view it as "raising" the grandbaby.... I would view it as temporary assistance to help my daughter raise her own baby... until she is able to do so without assistance.

teens make poor choices all the time... they just do things that are irresponsible.... they put their parents through a lot all the time. It's part of being a parent.

even though our family has been mightily blessed by adopting our youngest child... I would never in a million years put any of my daughters in a position of being coerced (by withholding support) into placing a baby for adoption... i would never ever put any of my girls through the nightmare that i am still living.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by manni28

Brenda:

You said it right here. Everyone knows it's usually the bdad or bgrandparents who put pressure on the emom.

Actually what I said was "It is not up to an agency worker, a prospective adoptive parent or the expectant parents own parents to make that decision for them." You excluded two vital, and powerful influences, adoption "professionals" and prospective adoptive parents.
.

Originally Posted by manni28

Brenda:

Who else is going to raise that baby beside the grandparents? The mom is sixteen; has no college degree( or high school dipolma) and still lives at home...so go figure! How is she and the bdad going to afford rent, childcare( she can't expect one of her parents to quit their job to raise the baby) and other basic quaitly of life things?

I know a number of teen moms that are raising their children. Some with parents help, others alone. Raising a baby is about so much more than the financial end of things. These parents are warm, involved parents who love their children deeply. They are better parents than some older people I know. Needing a place to stay or help with diapers does not make them bad parents.

[manni28]

I know a number of teen moms that are raising their children. Some with parents help, others alone. Raising a baby is about so much more than the financial end of things. These parents are warm, involved parents who love their children deeply. They are better parents than some older people I know. Needing a place to stay or help with diapers does not make them bad parents.

Brenda:

I never said it makes one a bad parent. I said it's very selfish to put the grandparents in a position where they are raising the baby, the mom and her sibilings. Also, the teens that are raising their children without help, where are they staying, how are they paying for childcare, food and clothing? I'm very curious, because as a teen you only can make so much without a college education.

-Manni

[dpen6]

Manni,

its all indivual..if the grandparents are warm and loveing and able to help it is in the best interst of the child to stay with that family, its in the best interst of the family to not lose that new family member. If in fact they do have an attiudes such as yours then it may be in the best interest to have that child placed....but then there are the consquenses of the pain of mom, dad, grandparents , cousins feeling a loss..and oh ya....the little one loses the chance to be raised in biological family. Personally I can't see any grandchilld of mine leaving my family, thats my kin, I would be horrified to lose...probably because I am an adoptee.

But I totally understand that if I were sick and my child was REALLY not able to be raised if the child was in danger of not eating, having shelter, or being neglect or abused ..well...thats different.

I was a child whose mother could not raise me, I was a child of a grandmother who would not let me in her house...and I understood all the reasons why..but i still lost my biology ....gained a wonderful adoptive family but had to lose a lot first. Ironically, my adoptive family I don't beleive would have ever let a child leave their family..they treasured family and children...

[manni28]

Manni,

its all indivual..if the grandparents are warm and loveing and able to help it is in the best interst of the child to stay with that family, its in the best interst of the family to not lose that new family member. If in fact they do have an attiudes such as yours then it may be in the best interest to have that child placed....but then there are the consquenses of the pain of mom, dad, grandparents , cousins feeling a loss..and oh ya....the little one loses the chance to be raised in biological family. Personally I can't see any grandchilld of mine leaving my family, thats my kin, I would be horrified to lose...probably because I am an adoptee.

But I totally understand that if I were sick and my child was REALLY not able to be raised if the child was in danger of not eating, having shelter, or being neglect or abused ..well...thats different.

I was a child whose mother could not raise me, I was a child of a grandmother who would not let me in her house...and I understood all the reasons why..but i still lost my biology ....gained a wonderful adoptive family but had to lose a lot first. Ironically, my adoptive family I don't beleive would have ever let a child leave their family..they treasured family and children...

Dpens:

Let's be honest, the child should not be putting her parents in a position to make her understand they signed-on to raise her; not she, the kid and her sibilings. Again, it's a very selfish position to put your parents in. They are ( the parents) raising you, your sibilings, and trying to take care of themselves, and the girl ends up pregnant! That's a lot to put the parent though! Yeah, I get she wants to keep her baby, but who is going to take of it? The parents can't quit their job to stay home and do childcare, nor can the afford another mouth to feed. Not to hijack this post, but I don't get it? When is a parent obilgated to raise their grandbaby (minus illness or death)? It's very selfish, we all know who will be raising the child, the grandparents.

P.S. I tresure family and children too, but I refuse ( minus sickness or death) to help my child raise their baby due to their irresponsible actions.

-MANNI