[RBSVARCHER]

and I do not like it. I am Mommie - his Ma-Ma did not take care of him and was a total failure to him and the other Ma-Ma's were orphanage workers.

Do you think it might be an idenity thing with him? That he wants me to really be his Ma-Ma (in a loving way) or is it just that word means "woman" to him?

He has always called me Mommie - just all of the sudden this comes out of the blue...... funny his daddy is not called Pa-Pa by him - he says no & points to DH - that's daddy - you Ma-Ma. I say NO I AM MOMMIE!!!

Has this happened to you?

Susan

[kretzklan]

Wow...strange thing - I totally understand. I wanted to draw a quick distinction between me and all the other "mamas" in their lives, so I didn't allow this word either. I know David is younger, but have you just told him. "David, I like to be called Mom or Mommy." - do you think he could understand that? I do think that since he's differentiating between Daddy and NO - you're Mama...well, that says something to me. I'm sorry...it's the little stressors that can really kill ya, huh???

[aspenhall]

You could try telling him to pronounce it differently...I never liked Ma-ma .....OR mommie....I liked mom, then I found another variation --Momma-- with the emphasis on MOMma....and the "a" is nearly silent pronounced more like "eh"

It could be old memories and merging his realities....like his past is becoming more present, so he is reverting to familiarities.....or this NEW life is feeling like it is finally just plain HIS life and familiar and so he is expressing himself the ways that are familiar to him....Or the word MA MA indicated "ownership" somehow...and is more of an intimate term in his mind...where mommie may have sounded too formal to him...

It also could have been a slip up once or twice, but your reaction amused him and he's found a "button" to push...

I think ignore it, or act surprised that he was speaking to you (when he uses it) if it Truly bothers you. He'll quit eventually....DD uses all the variations interchangeable whatever mood strikes her.

[sainttj]

Our boys came home at 2 and 3 1/2. I refused to be mama... they called every woman mama. I would say Nyet mama, mommmeeee. I would go to them when they called mama, but I would alawys tell them, no mamma, I am mommie. It took a few weeks and they called me mommie most of the time. After a few months we never heard mama again

We had to work hard on attachment as our oldest had indiscriminate affection. We are home one year now and I think we are firmly attached (although we still work on it).

I am not sure how old your son is or how well he understands English, but maybe you can say something like "I can't hear you, there is no mama here... only mommie". I have used the "I can't hear you with our bio girls when they started whining. We have very little whining now

Tracie

[qs mom]

I'm not familiar with your family and your situation, so forgive me if this isn't applicable.

My son called me mama. I was ok with it. In the orphanage, they called the workers 'auntie' only in his native tongue-Bulgarian.

But, honestly, mama was just a name, not an attachment, for a long time. About 4-6 weeks. It seemed a really long time.

He called me until he really started being around other kids calling their moms - mommy, mom, ma, mother. Almost 3 years later, he calls me all of the above.

Mama didn't upset me at all. I loved it. I call my mom mama on occasion. To me it's a more endearing and special word than mommy - everyone says mommy.

[RBSVARCHER]

Ma Ma's were the bio mother's name as well as the women who worked at the hospital as nurses and the orphanage workers.

Our Daughter called me Mommie and that was the most precious thing she could have called me. In fact the last sentence she spoke to me she called me Mommie and it has always held a special place in my heart. I feel like we have done more for David than any Ma-Ma has ever done and that the name Mommie is a name closer than the formal name Mother.

I will NOT be called Ma-Ma and will correct him each time until he gets it right. To me there was no love shown to David by any woman previously in his life known to him as "Ma-Ma".

Sorry, this I am very passionate about.......

Susan

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by RBSVARCHER

To me there was no love shown to David by any woman previously in his life known to him as "Ma-Ma".

That might be the way you see it, but it is not neccessarily how David sees it. He may actually have felt love for his caregivers, whether they showed it to him or not. You are interpreting it negatively when he may be seeing it as a term of affection.

[GCS]

I had this problem with Sam too at first. He was 3 and called all women MaMa. I explained over and over that I am his only Momma (he also does have some memory of a MaMa before the orphanage, but since he was abandoned I only assume this was his bmom. It could have been an aunt or gmom too - all women were MaMa).

I also put the accent on the first part of the word - more like a southern pronounciation than the Russian one. He picked up on that difference and called me that at first. Now its Mommy, Momma or Mom depending on the need - Momma is usually the name he calls me when he needs to be comforted.

I think if it needs to Mommie for you, then you just need to keep correcting him. You can also reinforce it by using it yourself a lot - ie. instead of the word "my" use Mommy - "come sit on Mommie's lap, would you like a drink from Mommie's cup", etc.

Christina

[RBSVARCHER]

After David was with his bio 17 months, he was removed from her with a broken hand, toe, and now has scars on his right hand and arm. He was sent to a hospital where he stayed for 4 months and then to the orphanage for 9 months before he came home with us.

David has had to learn to love, to hug, to kiss and in general have compassion and be able to love someone - and I believe it is because he never was shown that kind of love during the first 2 1/2 years of his life.

I am not seeing things negatively, just telling it how it is. MA-MA was a woman - simply a woman who took care of his basic needs - and probably that was done only after he was removed from bio and was in the hospital and orphanage. If you have to teach someone to hug - kiss - and show love then they never had it to begin with.

So I will not be MA-MA not in this life time.

Susan

[corhen]

I think it might be a self esteem problem for you or an identity problem for you.

[mikinitaly]

Corhen, I would like to politely suggest that you familiarize yourself a bit more with the struggle to form emotional attachments that many post-institutionalized children and their families face.

I have never experienced any of this myself (as of yet I have no children, adopted or otherwise), but as a regular and empathetic reader of this forum, I will venture to explain that one of the warning signs that a child is not attaching securely would be a tendency to treat all women, mother included, as interchangeable, mere basic-needs caregivers.

I fully understand and support RBSVARCHER's desire to make certain that her child does indeed distinguish between his mother and the perhaps dozens of rotating hospital and orphanage workers who may have perfunctorily met his physical needs, with no emotional bonds involved.

[kretzklan]

miki -

Thank you from this adoptive mom...how well said for someone who hasn't walked in these shoes yet. If you are planning to adopt - you are so far ahead of the game just from getting knowledge! Your post really made my day (which was already not looking so good!)

[RBSVARCHER]

Corhen,

I do not have an idenity problem nor a self esteem problem.

I have (as well as most parents who post on this board) spent many - many hours teaching english - trying to bond - teaching what a family is and means. Also many hours have been spent sitting in Dr's offices and hospitals trying to correct health problem(s) that were neglected by Ma-Ma. DH and I have spent many nights consoling a child screaming with night terrors for things which I will never know that David has faced that Ma-Ma allowed happen to him.

I am 47 years old - been married 28 years and have had a biological daughter, so not only am I am a experienced wife and a Mother, I KNOW WHO I AM - PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY and it is not a Ma-Ma that was/is interchangeable, nor do I think you have any right to post as you did.

The question asked was has anyone else experienced this sort of thing - not asking for an attack on myself personally - and frankly, I do not think this board is all about tearing one down - but building one up and giving support.

If you have any other comments about myself you would like to make you can PM me and I will give you my phone number and we can talk one on one.

Susan Archer

[aspenhall]

At first glance, it may seem like an insecure thing, but that assumption is made based on a 100% regular child with 100% regular motives.

I know you weren't trying to be offensive, or hurtful, Cohen, but you might have found a bit more tactful way to state your opinion. Remember this is only letters on a screen without tone, or facial clues and extra effort must be made to make sure there is no misunderstanding.

That being said, Susan, some of your MA MA issues did sound as though your distaste for the negativity of the word was based on your opinions and not david's actual use of the word. And did sound a bit like you were being too sensitive to it. AND it is a larger issue for you, than for iothers because of your daughter as well. But I knew he ws PI, and other attachment issues so I knew that there isn't a simple "pat" answer.

Remember this is THE MOST emotionally charged board on here. Try as hard as you can not to take offense, even if you ARE actually being attacked.

Has David changed any? is he still persistant in his use of MAMA? What is his demeanor when he says this? Does he ever use Mommy?

[qs mom]

Unfortunately, you are just a caregiver for awhile. It stinks, but that's what the kids know. It will change. The more trust that is built, the more it will change.

I certainly get that you don't like the term MAMA, but again, it's what he knows. As horrible as life was before us, it was theirs and what they know. In a strange place, this gives our kids comfort.

I have walked/do walk in your shoes. My son was removed from his birthmother at 8-9 months of age with severe resperatory problems. So severe that his was hospitalized for a couple of months. He then went to an orphanage for 2 years before coming home to his forever family.

I've rocked him during night terrors, soothed him durin nightmares. Worked with OT's, PT's, SLP's, councelors, special ed teachers, principals, etc.

My son has been home almost 3 years and truly LOVES me now. But he didn't always. I was just the person feeding him, bathing him and changing him. When he realized I was also the person playing with him, hugging him, taking care of him, loving him, things change dramatically.

So, it may just take some time and trust for the change in language for him. Just keep referring to yourself as mommy, have others refer to you as mommy. It will soon be your 'name'.

Personally, I can't wait to hear what my soon calls me when he hits those teenage years!

I have to say though what really comes across in your posts is your disgust and disapproval of his birth mother. Possibly even hatred. Regardless of what kind of parent she was, she gave him life and hes going to want to know of her, please don't put her in a trashy light, he could pick up on it and feel that you feel that way toward him.