[momm2be]

Okay, I have long thought I know what this is? But in trying to explain what I am doing for DD, I come short of knowing what exactly it means. What exactly do you do when you are in your "commando" mode that makes it different from before?

Is there something else I can do to get me down that last yard in attachment?


Just wondering what tactics you are using in your homes?

[aspenhall]

I am ZERO TOLERANCE. Resisting and delaying are manipulative techniques. It is more than boundaries, it is boundaries in bold, and *electrified*. It's kinda like the deliberate absence of patience. Without the anger. My hubby started to call me commando-mom thinking it would make me feel bad, instead I realized the tactics needed and a name for it that opened up other ways to handle things. I basically was a dictator and refused to let her have any say in anything or have responsibility for anything....after she got a little older, she realized that by showing responsibilty in some ways, she would be allowed agency in those areas. It was like if the boundaries were a "chain-link fence" then she didn't really see them as boundaries, only obstacles to get over or around. It is also 100% follow thru, don't threaten unless you will follow thru, as they will surely check to see if this fence is truly electrified or if it's a trick. Follow the consequence (never punishment) with the reassurance and confusion of "See, I told you this would happen, Mom doesn't lie, I will *never* lie to you. I just don't understand why you didn't believe me/take me serious/thought I would lie. In EVERY confrontation where YOU end up being right....drill it into her head again no anger, simply stating facts. Never miss an opportunity to point out your truthfulness, pretty soon she will no longer question whether or not you mean what you say, which leads to trusting what you tell her. Pretty soon, your words have meaning. I basically kept my self to extremes in my interactions...either I was princess or monster LOL. And she quickly decided which one, she'd rather I be. She also has learned that whining won't get her anywhere, even if I was gonna let her.....now, no way. I make sure that every interaction sends her a distinct message. I am in charge, everything will be ok because I am in charge, and mom and dad won't have different answers and we always tell the other about everything.

I don't know if this finishes the attaching, but it certainly helps start it. I also forced her to become vulnerable (usually because of fear) and then I am the rescuer or one who keeps her safe. I reiterate that I NEVER would have let anything happen, even though she thought something would. Enough experiences this way and they overwhelm all the other times she was ever let down. Pretty soon she quits testing the fences with the ferocity she once had. This is how it worked for us. We are still working on attachment, I think this is a lifelong process.
This may not be right in any situation, but by process of elimination, I figured out her triggers and responses and used that knowledge to my advantage. For example she saw patience, NOT as kindness, but as a weakness to take advantage of. It is essentially a "show no weakness" objective and then when she found my control to be FAIR and immoveable, I could show pain at her bad choices and she felt empathy and half the time will obey out of love and because it makes me happy and it makes "a good *kid-day*" (good refers to the day, not the child). It was a risk, because I was afraid she would see it as yet another way to manipulate. I usually tell her (on a bad day) "I don't feel you love me" and she isn't allowed to patronize me with words until she has *shown* me the love by her attitude/actions.

[momm2be]

Funny, I launched into zero tolerance mode in February. Its a problem around DB because he wants everyone to be happy and still falls for her drama queen manipulation. I downplay it all. You are not hurt -it's a scratch. Today she was over-reacting to swallowing a bug - DB was reaching for the drink, I asked if it tasted good, get over it.

Today at the park she told me I was nicer than ever (even after the bug incident). I asked what that meant? She said you don't yell anymore. I told her that because she has chosen to listen to me the first time round, I don't have to yell anymore. Did she miss it? No way.

Just wondering if I can add ""commando mom" to my resume.

[taramayrn]

Originally Posted by momm2be

Okay, I have long thought I know what this is? But in trying to explain what I am doing for DD, I come short of knowing what exactly it means. What exactly do you do when you are in your "commando" mode that makes it different from before?

Is there something else I can do to get me down that last yard in attachment?


Just wondering what tactics you are using in your homes?

Sorry but when I think of commando I think naked. You know "going commando". LOL

[mikeintexas]

I'm pretty sure I'm not engaged in naked parenting! But good heavens, I may not be sane anymore, so anything is possible!

Aspen put me on to the commando parenting and we pretty much use this faithfully now. The two keys are: zero tolerance and no anger.

I'm still waiting on the book that LilyMoon likes so much, so she may have some suggestions from that as well. The website she told me about (where you can order the book) is really good.

The commando parenting helps. I think, however, we still have to address those feelings deep deep down within that make our kids insecure. For us most recently, it's the presence of a new baby (my sister's) and Julia's insecurity that a baby is better than she is and that her parents will want the baby and not her. That's one of the issues...but one that has definitely been on the front burner lately.

Mike

[aspenhall]

My dd had small issues with infant vs. older child stuff....I told her if we WANTED a baby we would have gotten one...silly..... I didn't want to be the mom of a baby yet...I wanted a little girl just like her. A baby has all these problems like diapers and bottles and they can't talk and go play at the park or zoo with me....ETC....

After one or two talks she got it. I totally forgot about "going commando" LOL....that not only means naked, but in rappelling it means running face first forward down the cliff instead of backing down.

It was a descriptive term that meant no nonsense parenting....the real benefits are in the EXTREME black and white...no gray areas, no wishy washy....100% accountability and follow thru. unfortunately that also looks callous and unforgiving. But you balance it by being just as extremely sweet and happy and playful when the behaviors are within bounds. It makes them feel no mistake about the fact that a line has just been crossed. It's kinda the opposite of the wishy-washy (or non-existant) parenting they've been used to. AND it's merely a stepping stone and tool. A sort of way to communicate so that our signals aren't misread. It is being 100% aware of the exact message your child is recieving. For example, she takes her hair barrettes out in a show of contempt/anger says it was because she was sad. It was ACTUALLY because she wanted to force me to have to re-do her hair...response....."Oh, too bad, now your hair is a terrible mess, I would have left those in if I were you, now people will think you look funny when we are running our errands" and out the door you go regardless of the protests of tears. You make sure she did NOT accomplish her actual objective and send the message that her manipulations are ineffective on you, she couldn't "get back at you" or make a delay in getting out the door, it backfires and only affects her. Her poor choices make life bad for HER, not you. "Do you want everyone to think I am ugly??" is met with "Certainly NOT, which is why I do your hair every morning... YOU chose to take them out, that was YOUR decision, not mine".

The other attempt at control is "if I can't make you do anything about it, I can make you talk about it/something." and I COMMONLY say "I'm not going to discuss it with you" It is REFUSING to justify your decisions as parents. Explaining yourself to a child in this mindset sends the message that they are included in the decision and will only encourage the debate. Once I tell her that the conversation is over, there is a consequence for whining and trying to bring it up again. Whine about not getting to sit in front of the TV at dinner, because of poor behavior...after being warned not to whine, that the decision has been made...will get you sent away from the table -time out during dinner- and put to bed early. (food is given later and to be eaten quickly, but not the nice dinner that was served...maybe a cheese sandwich etc...)
These are extremes and usually aren't a regular occurrance, but when extreme behavior is there, you need to be prepared to be just as extreme in your consequences. As always, follow up with a long talk about what happened and why,including what the appropriate choices SHOULD have been or alternatives to the behaviors.

[treoto5]

Wow, I'd never heard of this and am wondering if this is just what I need right now. I have 3 boys all under age 5. Lately I've noticed that the two older ones are listening less and less to me and I am yelling more and more to get their attention. It's an awful cycle and I hate it so I am desparate to find another way.
What's worse is that my MIL took the opportunity to tell me that they are "losing respect for me" and now is the time to get that in line because as they get older, it will only get harder. Great. I felt even more terrible because I realized (after reading these posts) that my mom actually does that type of parenting when she is taking care of them for me. I can come home and everything is under control, the house is clean, the kids are quiet and sweet. But I walk in the door and everything just explodes. Kids start crying, whining, pulling on me, demanding candy or other treats, fighting with me when I say let's clean up the playroom etc etc.
The odd thing is that they are actually good kids. They have learned to say yes/no ma'am and yes/no sir, please, thank you, etc. We (me and my DH) work everyday on manners both in example and guidance and give tons of praise when they remember their manners. Even my youngest, 2 yo, uses his manners.
So, why do I feel like I'm losing control???
I think tomorrow I will try the commando parenting and NO yelling and see how it works. I haven't completely given up so maybe a new tactic is just what I need. They are loving and energetic boys and I adore them but I also know I need to set the groundwork now.
Yes, I keep saying "I" because my DH, love of my life, doesn't have the same issues.
Some days I feel like a failure of a mom. *sigh*
Alright, chin up, I'll try the new style tomorrow and see how it works.

[proudmommyof 2]

aspenhall-you actually sound very much like how we are raising Dennis. Almost eerily, except I didn't know the name for it.


dh and I go round and round because I am a boundary person. Recent example with Dennis-No Batman cape outside of the house. Why? Because soon he'll be getting too old for it, he doesn't understand he can wear it in the yard and not in the car, at the mall, at school, etc. He does understand, however, no Batman cape outside of the house. I found out dh was letting him wear it in the yard while I was at work, thinking, "What's the big deal?" (in his defense, this is really the only time he's ever undermined what I said). Well, the next day, we went out to play. Dennis through this horrible tantrum because he wanted to wear his Batcape. He was screaming, calling names ("loser", not swear words, but to me, anything disrepectful might as well be a swear word), and this went on for awhile. It's been weeks since we've seen this from him. I just smiled sweetly and told dh, you deal with it. We had trouble with Dennis going outside for days. He actually wasn't allowed out one day because he kept asking for the Batcape, and when I tell him no, he's not allowed to ask again.

Well, things are back to normal now, and I think dh really believes me. He sees a difference in how Dennis responds to me. I'm the lovey, silly, cuddler, but I'm also a woman of my word. If I tell him he has 5 seconds to get out of the bathtub or no story, and I get to 5, he gets no story. When I count, Dennis can't do what I want him to fast enough. dh is starting to pick up on this, and is saying less and less, "I mean it Dennis. This is your last chance. I'm serious now, Dennis."

Now, a question. Dennis is a very well-behaved boy (with some exceptions, noted above), loving, nice to others, does well in school. We'd like to do the same type of parenting with Tommy. Here's the problem though. Tommy is 2, and his language skills are very low, including receptive language. He doesn't understand counting yet. He doesn't have cause and effect down yet (poor Dennis was already in boot camp at age 2). If he hits or throws, and you warn him or yell at him, he smiles and hugs you. Manipulative, yes. However, he truly doesn't understand if you tell him that there will be a consequence for his actions. Until his language skills improve, any idea how I can discipline him? I'm afraid he's getting away with too much.

[Lorraine123]

Just be careful if your child has not fully attached to you yet. And I don't mean a child with RAD, I mean a child who hasn't been home long enough to attach or a child with attachment issues, even mild.

This type of parenting does not promote attachment. In fact, it goes again attachment parenting in many ways. You have to be careful in confusing compliance with attachment. It is not the same thing.

A child who is not fully attached need choices, consequences, and the chances to make mistakes. This type of parenting does not give these options.

So, yes, you will see better behavior, but what is the root reason for the better behavior? In this type of parenting, it isn't because the child has learned to trust the parents and that is what attachment is all about.

I'm not saying don't do it, just be cautious. I would never parent in this way with my RAD daughter.

[mikeintexas]

Maybe the most useful approach to commando parenting (and this goes back to threads I posted earlier this week) is via Nancy Thomas' book. At least in there, she provides guidelines that address compliance by addressing attachment issues. Others may or may not agree with me on that, and candidly, I really don't know. It's just a thought I had off the top of my head.

What I have found is there are about 100 different ways to parent your child to facilitate attachment, and 17,000 opinions for each of those 100 different ways. Some things work well for some and not for others. Obviously if there were a silver bullet for parenting, we wouldn't all be here commiserating.

We are just reading and rereading various approaches. The Nancy Thomas approach appears to be but one way (though some swear by it) yet the Beyond Consequences approach appears to be somewhat different (and others swear by it too).

Mike

[aspenhall]

What I found is it was the basic building blocks of trust.....she could see that I told the truth and vcould count on me to follow thru.......then she started trusting me on other stuff. I couldn't focus on attachment with her, until she understood the basic parent/child relationship.

Please also understand that Commando Parenting only applied to her control/manipulative behaviors and basic set in stone RULES. When she "helped remodel" by removing my bathroom wallpaper on one wall (room was not being remodeled!)....I recognized it as typical 5 yr old thinking and there was no commando response.....but the standing rule of no playing in the dog water dish has a DEFINATE commando response!

I wonder if "Tommy" has some form of Fetal Alcohol Effect. They have a hard time recognizing that actions have consequences...good and bad.... It's a lack of cause/effect thinking. Research on those forum boards and see if that may be a possibility. ALSO he may just need more practice and more examples and modeling of the behaviors from you if he came from an institutional background. Get him some toys that promote cause/effect thinking (don't know of any specifics).

Commando Parenting is just a word for what worked for me in my situation with my dd's background. It may not be right for everyone. I certainly have less experience parenting (not quite 1 1/2 yrs) than almost EVERYONE else on these forums LOL! The key is in not being manipulated and making sure that the child's actions only affect them and not you. BUT more importantly you need to treat each acting out/consequence situation as a learning experience afterwards......figure out why, help the child identify the triggers, discuss what could they could have done instead...give them more tools to better deal next time and remind them of the tools and things discussed the prior time....explain why the consequence was just and reasonable and restate that this is your job: to help them learn how to make good choices.

For some the book "Parenting with Love and logic" will help, rather than my extremes that I had to do.
All in all, each child is totally different, so read and research ALL the suggestions then try the ones that you feel best fits your child and situation.

[treoto5]

I tried the commando technique, at least my understanding of it, and it did make a difference today. I yelled only twice, I was very aware of myself and my own behavior today, and made sure the kids understood exactly what I was asking them to do. I also made sure I said thank you and please because I want to model the behavior that I expect from them.
The worst part came when my DH came home and was going to take them with him to do the grocery shopping. Never a problem - always a treat - we take them everywhere with us (both as a couple and alone). My two eldest threw a fit about having to straighten up the playroom and I told them if they didn't do it, then they couldn't go with daddy. My youngest came running to help and finished his little job and then chose his clothes to get ready. My two eldest refused so they lost their privilege of going. I explained to DH what I was doing and why and he backed me up 100%. So, the two eldest didn't get to go on shopping trip.
They were angry and crying but I sat down with them and explained in simple terms what had happened and why. Then I had them explain it to me in their own words to be sure they understood. They are both very vocal and were able to tell me why they didn't get to go. They still weren't happy but they came to me a few minutes later and said they were sorry they didn't listen to me. We hugged and went about the rest of our day.
I don't know if it was the minimal yelling (I'm going for a goal of zero yelling) or what but today was much better.

They've been with us nearly 3 years and are fully attached. I think this stage is more of them expressing their autonomy and testing their boundaries with me than anything else. They are awesome, intelligent, loving children and man, they are smart as whips.

Proudmommyof2, have you tried using alternative communciation with your son? We started teaching our boys sign language using the signing time video series and it made a world of difference. Our youngest uses a combo of words and signing to talk with us. His verbal skills are growing lightning fast but until he is fully able to express himself, he uses the signing to make up the difference. He turned 2 at the beginning of the year.

[proudmommyof 2]

Aspenhall and treoto5-


Thanks for your responses. Aspenhall-our dr. does think Tommy has FAE, some degree of brain damage, or a combination of the two. His delays are related to some kind of as-yet-to-be-diagnosed neurological problem. He is receiving services out the wazoo and support from us. You were right on.

treoto5-we actually have worked with him on signing. He can tell you the sign for hungry, thirsty, sleepy, etc., but never inititates. He still doesn't understand the difference between shaking his head no and nodding yes. If he wants something, he'll either fuss until we name the proper word, and then he'll sign it, or he'll just shake, nod, and try every sign that he knows. He's got absolutely no expressive lang. at this time, and his receptive lang. is at about a 12 mo. level.


Soooo-how do you think I should handle him hitting or biting? We could warn Dennis, then follow up with the punishment, whatever it was, when he was 2. I'm afraid that because of our focus on Tommy's delays and getting him caught up, we're letting him get away with too much. He truly doesn't understand why he is removed from a situation, or has a toy taken from him, or is forced to sit on Dennis' rug (his little place to cool down). He just smiles if you correct him and tries to hug you (I realize that's manipulative), and if he's punished, he cries, has no idea why, and goes back to what he was doing. Should I just keep removing him and worry about teaching him what's wrong later? My instincts say no, because eventually he will understand, and we'll have let him go too long.

Any advice is welcome!!!

[aspenhall]

What advice have you gotten from the FAE boards? A child whose brain is wired different requires a totally different approach. I think, teach him the sign for wrong/bad and see if you can re-inforce his behavior with that as well. I don't have a child with FAS/FAE, I have one who is nearly smarter than me....thats why commando works here....she has to UNLEARN how the relationship works and LEARN for the first time that boundaries of ANY KIND exist. (zero structure in her first home) So I had to make sure I was black and white in showing her the boundaries...there cannot be any gray areas.

[ddahl]

How does one begin to go Commando? I think I need to frankly. We are having rules and structure issues here. Where do I start? Thanks for any advise :-
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