[mikeintexas]

Man do I hate to complain again.

Any advice for a dad who is worn out to the core in trying to fix attachment behaviors?

I'm spent. This has been a week I'd like to bottle up and throw away. Don't these kids get tired of making life hard for themselves and for others? Holy cow!

School seems to be great... all smiles every day 3 entire weeks since Christmas break.

Home on the other hand...

Mike

[Jensboys]

Mike my only advice is that its a battle you have to win. And a battle it is.

Travelling and any disruption in routine is very hard for unattached kids because they lose the possibility of control because life is unpredictable. Plus, they lack the life experience to know that they WILL get to go home again, and that this isnt another permanent disruption in their life.

Keep going the pay off is worth it - and come here to vent ANYTIME.

Where there specific issues that triggered your daughter? Events, times of day?

Jen

[LilyMoon]

Sorry you are having a tough time, Mike. Don't forget to take some time for yourself and do something you enjoy to recharge.

What behaviors specifically are you dealing with?

Have you read Bryan Post's book Beyond Consequences? That book is so helpful for dealing with specific behavior problems. I am reading another good book now, it is really a general parenting book but was recommended at an attachment symposium. It's called Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn.

Just wanted to offer my support, I know how difficult attachment issues can be and the toll it takes on everyone in the family.

LilyMoon

[crick]

Mike, vent away! We've all been there!

Maybe she's having a bit of adjustment being back home/structure/routine after the vacation?

Might even be a bit of "spring fever"...

School smiles is great news though!!!

Hang in there, and feel free to vent further...even if we can't specifically help, we can listen.

[angelkisses0102]

Mike I feel your pain..I really really do! There were many, many days I wanted to throw in the towel...I was so tired...physically exhausted, emotionally a mess, and just plain tired of trying to fix a kid who didn't seem to want to be healed. We do all these things to 'help' them and they just push us away harder. We change our lives for them and they simply don't care. (Sound familiar? )

I am gonna remind you...for the one millionth time ...TIME is your friend!! It took us 23 months to undo the 'damage' Alex suffered in just 8 short months of life. Painful reminder to you...but how long have you guys been at this? And Julia was older. And it typically takes 2 years for a healthy emotional bond to form.

But look back and see how far you have come...I honestly think regression is the hardest because you have seen 'the light at the end of the tunnel' and know how good it can be...and then blam...you get hit by that freight train..that was actually that light at the end of the tunnel.

But I promise you...when Julia gets better and hugs you, just because...all the pain is worth it. PROMISE!!!

***ETA*** Mike ~ you and Della need to take care of yourselves too....make sure every day you do 'something' for you...even if for just a few minutes...a cup of Starbucks...a long shower...a walk around the block...a venting post here...whatever. We all understand and support you!

[Lorraine123]

Mike,

Are you seeing an attachment therapist? If a child has RAD, the attachment cannot be built without a therapist's help. Remember, healing attachment problems in an older child is a whole different ball game than healing a young child.

TIME is your friend!!

I respectfully disagree with this. Time will not heal attachment issues. Without true attachment therapy with an older child, time will simply make the problems worse.

A very typical sign of RAD is that the child is cooperative in school, but a terror at home. Often a child with RAD is actually the best behaved child in the classroom. The teacher loves them. But home is a whole different ballgame. My daughter is a model student as far as behavior in school. So I'm not surprised to hear you say this.

Please consider looking for an attachment therapist. Don't do play therapy or talk therapy. Again, those will worsen the issues. It must be a true attachment therapist.

Good luck to you. And let me know if you have any specific attachment questions for older children.

Lorraine

[RBSVARCHER]

Mike - does your social worker keep in touch? Ours was a retired State of Alabama Social Worker for DHR and is wonderful. She is honest - straight forward - and can really help - by chance is yours?

If so, maybe he/she can give you some suggestions on what to do or which way to turn......just a thought.

Susan

[mikeintexas]

Hi everyone -

Thanks for your thoughts & encouragement.

To answer some questions...

We've been home 11 days from our trip. We had a brief visit to the grandparents in there too. Perhaps this is still an after-effect.

Our social worker has not been overly helpful. She offers suggestions here and there but nothing substantial. She did suggest we do a "Date" with each child on his/her own and we are doing that just to give each individual time.

It's very hard for me to know that our boys are having to live with all of this. There is a lot of guilt on our part for that.

We have not seen an attachment therapist. We're not completely opposed, but it will take some financial doing and we need to think through how that will work before we go into it.

We are still just 3 months into our commando plan so we're willing to give it some more time. We've seen tremendous progress in those 3 months, but also some pretty big backlash as well.

She is not hellish or belligerant. She is fairly normal, calm, etc. She can just be defiant in her own way. Case in point: she was reading to me last night. She read book 1 w/out any trouble. But she picked up book 2 (a continuation of book 1) and all of a sudden she forget every word she knew in her life? Are you kidding me? She was messing with me and manipulating the situation. That is when I had had enough for that day. Tonight, I gave her the book, told her to read it and call me when she was ready. She called. She then instantly became incapable of reading the title, so I said, "Oh, well too bad, I guess you aren't ready. Read it two more times to yourself and let me know if you are ready to read then."

Lily, I have the book written down now. I've neglected to order it. Della is going to the library tomorrow and will check it out (or request it through interlibrary loan). Thank you. I should have done this much earlier... I had good intentions, but with three kids...

No specific events, time triggers, etc... just routinely difficult.

Earlier this week, Della took Julia & William to McDonalds to eat and to play in the playplace. Julia decided to "make friends" with a complete stranger, a dad of one of the children playing there. Della cut that one off immediately. Julia does have trouble not wanting to play with children but wanting to get the attention from any adult in sight. Obviously a problem... it hasn't been this bad in awhile, but this is where we've seen the regression.

SO, we kept her w/ us this AM in church instead of sending her to Sunday School. This actually worked well because Della got to hold her in the service...and that was good. Also, there was a baby baptized, so it was a chance for Julia to see that before hers (which will likely be late August).

So, all in all, just a number of setbacks this week and that makes it tough, esp. when you've seen progress. I'll look over your posts again and check into everything you've suggested. Thanks again.

Della and I took our own "Time out" tonight...

Yesterday was just a rotten day... today was better, but what are the odds of having two really rotten days in a row? (Don't anwer that!)

Mike

[Lorraine123]

Mike,

My daughter came home at age 6, so I know where you are are right now. My daughter was adopted from foster care, but attachment disorder doesn't discriminate.

It sounds to me like your daughter has some pretty serious attachment issues. The reading problem you mentioned - we have the same thing. It is totally about manipulation and control. It isn't that she can't read or she forgets. She is using it to control you. She doesn't trust you and she is testing you. Also - we still don't let our daughter go to Sunday School. She stays with us (and this is after 2 years +). Your daughter should NOT be separated from you at all except when absolutely necessary. She needs to get all her needs met from you. At all times. If she can get her affection from a stranger, even if it is a quick hug in McDonald's when she breaks away from you, that reinforces in her mind that you are not necessary. She needs to never have that opportunity, and if that means never leaving the house, then thats what has to happen.

Please realize that therapeutic parenting can't heal this. It can help, but it alone can't heal it. It will get worse without attachment therapy. When a child is young, you can do the attachment parenting techniques on your own, but when the child is older, that is impossible. The attachment therapist knows how to show the child that the parent can be in control and the child will still be safe. You alone can't do that. You are too emotionally involved.

My daughter is not hellish or belligerant. Not all RAD children are. That is the oppositional side of RAD and not all children show it, or have it. RAD is simply the lack of ability to bond to one person. Its the overly friendliness to strangers as opposed to their parents. Its the "mom shopping". Its the manipulation of the parents to prove that they are in control. Its the charming of adults when out in public. Its the triangulation of adults. RAD isn't always about rages and tantrums and fighting (although thats usually part of it). In fact, some of the more serious cases of RAD don't have that. So please don't think that just because your daughter isn't belligerant, she doesn't have issues.

I realize it is expensive, but its paramount to your child's healing. Please find a way. I have been parenting a child with RAD for almost 3 years now. Its devastating. My daughter will not heal. Her RAD is too severe. I wish this on no one. Sorry if I am going over board, but its something that consumes my life (and the lives of my other children). Attachment disorder is a very serious problem. It requires professional help.

I wish you luck.

Lorraine

[mikeintexas]

Lorraine - I appreciate your insight and your candor. We'll look into this.

Mike

[redbonec]

Lorraine and Mike (and others at this forum),

I just wanted to jump in and ask, if I may:
Why is it that RAD children are on such good behavior at school? I am a first grade teacher. Two years ago I had a child who she and her brother were being fostered by aunt and uncle. From what their aunt told me about how they acted at home, and with the therapist, but different at school (like you said, no issues with school staff), she reminds me of a RAD child. Why do the children with RAD want to please at school? It is just a question I am curious about.

I read your posts often. Some years at school are good (like this year), others--sheesh. And I anticipate more years where I will have very troublesome kids (there are several coming up from Kindergarten next year). So when I read your posts (everyone who posts on this forum), I have already decided who I will be asking for help with child behavior! I guess what I am trying to say is, I really respect your honesty and everything you put into your family daily. I am always rooting for you and your kids.

Best of wishes always, and thanks.
Michelle

[Lorraine123]

Children with RAD are very afraid of attachment. Intimacy scares them. Terrifies them. So, at home, the parents love them, and this is very threatening to them. They react (hence the term "Reactive Attachment Disorder"). They will manipulate, triangulate, and push away the very people who want to love them.

On the other hand, school is superficial. The teachers aren't trying to develop love in the child. (Don't get me wrong, I know teachers care about the children, but they aren't developing a family atmosphere). The child is great if the atmosphere is superficial. Most children with RAD do great in group home or an institutional environment for this reason. Usually RAD isn't even seen until the child is in a family.

All children (even RAD ones) need some level of intimacy. They need touch and hugs. But they fear them from their families. Therefore, they seek this out in strangers or non-family members. If they can get a hug from a stranger, then the intimacy need is met. They no longer need to get it from their parents. And not even strangers, teachers will do. So they turn up the charm and cooperate to the extreme to get their teachers to think they are cute, sweet and loveable. If the teachers then hug them, compliment this behavior, or in any way give intimacy to the child, the child can push the parents further away becuase they don't need them. The need for intimacy has been met without becoming close to someone.

My daughter is an angel at school. She charms everyone to death. Its nauseating. She isn't allowed to hug (or even touch) an adult at school. It is so unhealthy for her. RAD children need to be in an environment where they are forced to seek out their parents to fulfill this intimacy need. Thats why it is actually best to home school these children. They should not be in day care. Best case scenario, they are with the parents and the the parents only 24 hours a day.

I don't know if this answers your question or even makes sense. Let me know if you need any other answers.

[redbonec]

Lorraine,

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. It is heartbreaking--the child seeks just enough "love" from almost anyone, but the people (parents) who care about the child the most and who can give the child the most love--the child will not accept it. And how frustrating for the parent to see that everyone else is charmed, only to have quite the opposite at home.

One more question then (for future reference for me)--I am lucky to have parent volunteers in the classroom this year. The children have come to know them and hug them when they see them. So, for a RAD child, do you tell the child that even though other children hug parent or teacher adults, they do not. And, how does the teacher tell the RAD child no hugs if he/she gives hugs to others in the class? I would be in total agreement if I had a RAD child, I am just wondering how to go about the diplomacy of it.

Thanks again,
Michelle

[hophock]

Since I also have a child with RAD, I can really relate to what is being said. I did notice that it's the anniversary of her homecoming. You might consider whether she is also reacting, in part, to this anniversary. I've talked to a lot of parents of kids with RAD and/or PTSD who notice that things suddenly get worse around their birthday (anniversary of separation from birth mom) or around their homecoming.

All the best! I know this is hard! I do think it's important to pursue therapy. It's saved us!

[Lorraine123]

My daughter knows she is "different". She knows that her background is very different than the background of other children. She knows that other children love their parents, and she isn't able. She knows that we are working on helping her become like other kids. So, she accepts that she can't hug others until she learns to hug mom and dad with feeling. Its just a rule and she knows it. These children are different, thats a fact. We don't pretend that she isn't. If an adult comes up to my daughter and wants to hug her (this happens at church all the time), we say that S is learning to hug her family and hugs are saved for family only.