[GCS]

[quote=
Christina, so much of your post is relevant to my case at the moment. I feel that Antonina doesn't know how to act infront of other kids. Its not so much that she hurts other kids but she has and does use very inappropriate sign language with them. She has kicked, punched, bite, screamed, pulled my hair -everything when the time has come to leave the park or the swimming pool or whatever fun thing we're doing at the time. You made me smile about McDonalds, I always have an escape route and more often than not I buy the food at the drive-in, and pull up in a lay-by and we eat our food in the car. How sad is that!! I just can't cope with the scene we will have when its time to leave. [/QUOTE]

Pinkie,
Sam never hurt anyone (except me and himself during an especially bad temper tantrum - but that wasn't often.) He really didn't understand how these kids played. They had this whole world of social cues and games that they all knew. Even the ones who had just met. That Sam didn't get. It took a while for him to understand how to play well with others, and not be the kid that they were all using as "that kid to get away from."

As far as McD's goes, here's what I did. We didnt go back for a very long time after a particularly bad experience. Months. Then I pulled into the parking lot one day and we looked in the window and saw all the kids playing. I said "do you want to eat in there and play with the other kids?" Of course you can imagine how excited he was. I had him come sit on my lap from his car seat and made him make eye contact with me. It's hard to do when he's excited, mad, distracted, etc.

We went over it again and again. You play nice with other kids. No matter what. No crying, no fussing. You must eat your food. And... the most important thing...when Momma says it's time to go, it's time to go.

He was an angel. He kept checking on me and he saw that I was watching. I kept encouraging him and telling him what a great job he was doing. When it was time to go I gave him a few minutes to finish up and he came down and put his shoes and coat on and he says to the boy next to us "when Momma says its time to go, its time to go" very seriously.

This was 5 months ago. Everytime we go now we go over the rules. He knows them by heart. We had one incident the 2nd time we went where he was going to test me. I picked up and packed up and got ready to leave, he saw I was serious and he got in line. He always needs to see if I will follow through on my threat. I always do. Without exception. I know this is still his biggest orphanage issue. The thought that I may not be serious because they werent so often.

The good thing about our McD's experience is that I can parlay this into other events. We did our first Chucky Cheese last week - I really held out on going there as long as I could - and he loved it. He knows the rules now and wants to come back so he walks the line!

Good luck!
Christina

[RBSVARCHER]

I would just like to add one thing. After the birth of our biological daughter - I felt just like the posts above. So all these feelings are not just in PI adoptions - it is happening in homes all across the country - to birth parents as well as with us adoptive parents. The real issue is that this subject is just now "coming out of the closet" and really has been taboo until now. It is real - gosh much more real than anyone could imagine - and it hurts to the bottom of our guts.

Do not feel like you will be judged by getting professional help - you will be judged if you don't get professional help and fall down into that deep black hole of depression and do something we otherwise would have never dreamed of doing.

[PollyG]

OK all, this is my story. I relate to all that has been written here. I am a single Mom with an 11 yo bio son and a newly adopted 10 yo daughter from Russia. We have been home 9 weeks since Trip #2. Julia was perfectly behaved during our time in Russia and on the trip home. I saw other adoptive famiy's dealing with behavior issues in the hotel, at the embassy, and on the plane home. But not my girl! She was quiet, respectful, obedient and very loving. Great eye contact, very empathetic. I thought I had hit the jackpot with her. Fast forward to arriving home and all *H--* broke loose. From day one she has had intense jealousy of my son. If I show any attention to him she flips out and tantrums. This can be for as little an action as giving his dinner plate to him first, or putting my arm around him. One on one with each other they are fine together - play and have fun, but if I'm involved in any way the fireworks begin. As the weeks have gone by her behavior is becoming worse instead of better- no matter how I handle it. I use the "attitude" from Daniel Hughes but am only succesfull part of the time in maintaining it. It's SO HARD when you have a child very skilled in pushing every button you have all day long. Do I abuse or hurt her? NO....does a small part of me want to smack that smug look off her face - YES. It is very difficult not to take the bad behavior personally and to remain "calm and understanding" when she is raging. Here is an example just from yesterday as to her behaviors: would not get out of bed in the morning - I had to struggle to dress her while she balled up her body so I couldn't get her clothes on. Hitting and screaming at me. Would not walk to the car to go to school - I had to carry/drag her to the car. Same with walking into school except she kept trying to lay down on the sidewalk. I finally picked her up and carried her in. After school she threw a tantrum over my talking to my son - started cursing at me in Russian, making faces and grunting noises. Began hitting and kicking me and throwing things. As I tried to restrain her she pinched my upper arms - Hard!. I have bruises there from her past pinches. As I held her to try and calm her down, she spit in my face and tried to bite my arm. At other times she taunts me - balls up her fist and swings at my head - all the time with a smile and saying "Mama scared?" "Mama scared?" It takes all I have not to physically disipline her at these moments. I do show her that I am in control - by holding her, time ins next to me etc. I have discovered that her behaviors can be one of two things, actually pathology where she emotionally lashes out, and pure dramatic manipulation. On the postive side - and there is a positive side, Julia can be extremely loving...telling me she loves me 100 times a day, wanting to touch and be next to me for hours, helpful around the house trying hard to please.very kind to our animals and her brother. It's a push/pull mentality and her behavior can change on a dime - from great to horrible in an instant. The language barrier is a problem, although she is learning engish rapidly. I'm hoping once we can comminicate more clearly, things will improve. I'm going to be consulting with an attachment therapist also to get some help with my response to her behaviors. Anyway - it's so good to know I'm not alone in my struggles! Please keep posting everyone - as it's so hard to travel this path alone.

Ann

[cr653]

hey guys!
i just saw this thread!
i wish there was some way to attach it to all the forums!

In no way was i expecting this 'let down' or depressed feeling upon coming home with our long awaited daughter.

Everything was 'perfect'!
My children at home were prepared,
i wasnt exhausted from labor, or sleepless nights or a bad pregnancy,
the room was ready,
and
the baby was an easy going little cutie!

I had NO reason to fall into a slump!
it made me feel even MORE depressed!

I started to feel critical, and frustrated with my dh, my house (which i LOVE), my sister (whom i love), and on and on.

Having suffered from boughts of depression after the births of our children, youd think i would have recognized the 'clues'!

fortunately the only area of my life that remained IN my favor were my kids!

A few weeks into being home, i felt a huge lift!
And i posted on our guatemala forum.

I was kind of scared,
as all the 'coming home' posts are smiles and glee!

while mine was, struggles, and frustration,
and viewing things through anything but rose colored glasses!

the response was great.
there are quite a few people who struggle with some kind or degree of PAD. Most though, do not seem to know it even exists!

i think a large part of the problem for me was that my days, weeks, and years have been an emotional rollercoaster to get this little girl added to our family
...once it was done, i was kind of floundering.(wierd, but i think that was some of it!)

anyhow,
im back to 'normal' (for me that is!LOL)
and
so glad to see this informative thread!

yes,
at the beginning,
there are tons of 'smiles and glee',
but also sleepless nights, sibling rivalry, and the occasional feelings of being overwelmed!


in time it all evens out, and life is normal, and at this house, it is a lot more smiles and glee THAN the stress and frustration,
but, it took time to get to this point!


cris...who hopes somehow all waiting adoptive parents on these forums come across this thread!

[Overwhelmed!]

I'm learning so much reading your posts. Thank you so much for your honesty! I wish you all well.

[PollyG]

Sorry for the double entry!
Ann

[Pinkie]

Originally Posted by GCS

put his shoes and coat on and he says to the boy next to us "when Momma says its time to go, its time to go" very seriously.

Christina, how I long for those words to come out of Antonina's mouth!!!!! I'll keep you posted.

PollyG, I remember you from posting on the Russian Forum, welcome and congratulations on getting your daughter home. I'm sure things will improve, hopefully soon for you. I find the more Antonina speaks english and spanish the easier my days get. We're still working on things but I'm confident it will work out.

I've got to sign out now but want to wish you all a very good and peaceful weekend.

[ALI143]

I hadn't thought of those parents that hurt their children in this light before. What a profound post! It totally does give me a prospective for how these things happen. I had thought they were just abusive people in general, but since PAD has crept into and invaded my life I do find myself wishing I could slap her little face. It sounds ridiculous to even type, but I get so frustrated and defeated! Some days it's hard to make myself get out of bed. I just thank you all so much for sharing your experiences! It means so much to me to know that these things happen to good parents.

[mikeintexas]

Just a note from the daddy peanut gallery...

I appreciate everyone sharing their posts. It is cathartic to read them and know that this is an important issue that has to be addressed. Thanks to everyone for their candor.

Mike

[aamommy]

I'm ashamed to post this ...... but what if your child doesn't have attachment problems, but you do? What if your child is "difficult" but everyone who meets him thinks he is the cutest little baby ever and as his own mother you can't stand him??? What if he is not a demanding toddler or an orphanage baby who doesn't want to attach to people? What if he is just a normal baby who is used to getting attention all the time and wants it from his mother and she can't give it to him because she can't stand him??

I know I have PADS ..... I have done everything I can think of to try to make things better. I am going to see a therapist, I've gone on depression and anti anxiety meds, I've accepted help from all who have offerred, I've joined a bible study and tried to get out of the house more, I've prayed to God every day that he gives me the strength to love this boy. But none of this has changed the fact that after 5 months I dislike him as much as I did the day he came home and that I can barely manage just to get through a whole day with him.

Some people probably think I am a horrible person. Others like my therapist might tell me my feelings are OK and normal. But I know I feel like the biggest loser on earth for feeling this way. My children have been my LIFE .... I love them more than anything. I have 2 bio girls ages 2 and 4 and I would do anything for them. In fact, that's why I wanted to adopt in the first place because life with my kids was so wonderful that I wanted to share that with someone else. And then we made the fated decision to adopt not 1, but 2 babies. The biggest mistake I have ever made in my life. Our daughter came home 6 months ago and she was wonderful. She was the easiest baby I'd ever seen and I liked her immediately ..... and over that 6 months that has grown into the same love that I feel for my bio daughters. She is so sweet, cute, and funny. I truly feel she was destined for our family.

But our son?? I ask God every day why have I been given this child who I cannot attach to? Then I think, maybe God did NOT send him to me .... maybe it was my own fault for making the decision to adopt this child. My husband loves him, my daughters love him, my whole family loves him and everywhere we go people are commenting on how adorable he is. And here I am thinking to myself that I'd much rather have an ugly baby who I loved than have this cute and charming little guy with the high pitched scream that nearly drives me insane. If he was adopted by anyone else, they probably would have loved him. So why can't I?????

Everything had changed in my life since he came home. I have gone from working PT and on my days off going on fun outings with my 2 girls to being a FT SAHM trapped in the house with 4 kids under age 5. I can still get out with 3 kids, but not 4. WHY did I do this to myself??? My husband works LONG hours .... he is wonderful with the kids when he is home, but frankly he's not home enough. And when I've talked to him about disrupting the adoption, he's threatened to divorce me and try to take custody of all the kids. He has been zero support in this struggle. When I try to talk to him about how can I continue to raise a child that I can't stand which will certainly be apparent to him the older he gets, which will certainly be apparent to the 3 girls that their mom loves them and doesn't love their brother ..... DH just tells me that things will get better and I should just forget about it. Well, 5 months later things have NOT gotten better!!!! The life I had a year ago at this time, which seemed to be the perfect life, is crumbling before me. My marriage, my identity as a professional and as a mother ....... GONE. I feel completely trapped. I have thought about getting a job just so that I can get away from him ... even though I am now enjoying being home with the other 3 .... but that is not an option because I can't earn enough to pay for daycare for 4 children. I would be PAYING to go to work and with the debt from our 2 adoptions, we cannot afford that. I can't afford to stay home and just send him to daycare ... again, our financial situation does not allow it. And since the past 5 years I have completely put my career on hold to spend more time with my children (while my husband was advancing in his career) there's NO way that we can afford to have him stay home and live on my salary. I am so, so lost. I just don't know what more I can do to change this situation and to love this child.

The meds have helped a lot. I have never been depressed before in my life. I'm not the psycho I probably sound like. When he first came home I could barely get myself out of bed in the morning. I could barely face the day. Psychologically I am much better now. But it hasn't helped me to love him.

I really appreciate hearing all of your stories. But I can't help feeling how these types of feelings are so understandable in dealing with older children or attachment disorders ..... but so unjustified in my situation.

[JohnnaMJH]

Thank you all for sharing. I know that we struggled big time bringing home a 3yo. Part of it was naivete. Part of was that the 2yr wait was so grueling and in the end, very dramatic in many ways, I just had nothing left when I had to deal with a child who was trying to push me away at every turn and so obviously wanted his other Mami. Even still, it is so hard when people just don't understand. The other day I was talking about getting a break from him and my friend said, "so what is it, is he just really high energy?" I WISH! I think one of my biggest mistakes was not taking a break. Sometimes you have to do what you need, but I was so concerned that he had to be with me all the time to foster a good attachment and instead I think it actually hurt us both. In our case, in retrospect, I know I should've admitted that I needed a break and either put him in preschool or found a regular sitter. Now that he is in school two afternoons a week and a friend (who really knows his issues) takes him one morning, my whole world has changed.

Anyway, thanks again to all who shared. You are doing a great service to all adoptive parents by being open about your experiences.

God Bless you all,

[Overwhelmed!]

aamommy- I have no words of wisdom to offer, I'm the parent of just one child and so I don't have the balancing routine that you have with 4 small children. Still, I want to offer you warm thoughts and support. I'm so sorry that you're going through this right now and that your husband doesn't seem to understand your feelings. I pray that things get better for you and your son soon. Hang in there!

[mckenna]

my situation is of course diffenent from others, but the feelings are all the same. when i was in the heat of attachment parenting with my 2.5 year old son (who i had been raising since he was 4 months old), my emotions went from hate of me, to hate of him, to hate of his bmom. feeling like the worst mom in the world. hating God for making my son like this. exhaustion, fatigue, pain (physically and mentally) feeling misunderstood, & frustrated. but what finally got me scared was when i started feeling nothing. then i knew it was bad and if things did not change it would be bad. my son is now almost 5 and while we still have our days, they are so few and far between. we truely have a wonderful bond now.

i am now adopting my 1y/o (got her at 6 weeks) and now my fear is that we won't have the same bond that my son and i had because (hopefully) we won't go to hell and back like my son and i did.

it is so amazing to read everyone's stories and to hope that someone going through this will seek help or realize they are not alone. thanks for starting this thread.

[angelkisses0102]

aamommy~

I just had a nice long post typed and my little monster deleted it! UGH! HUGS to you...hang in and STOP beating yourself up!!! No need for that....we are here and we understand...we really do. I'll try to repost later!

THANKS TO ALL who have posted!!!

[Javalita]

Hey,
Glad to find this forum and look forward to having more time to really read all of the threads. I'll try and squeeze in my story quickly before my little guy wakes up from his nap.

I'd say that it all started on the flight home. By the time we got on the Frankfurt-SFO flight he did not want to be held on our laps at all if we were sitting. Screaming, fussing, squirming and refusing to sleep. We stood up most of that flight and DS probably only slept 2 hours the whole way.

Continued refusing to be held while sitting, refusing to look at us in the eye, etc. Up several times a night. It is difficult to remember everything and I will say that is part of my difficulties in explaining to friends/family WHY we are going "commando" on parenting. It is a bunch of things that all add up to something not being right.

We were also in big denial in the beginning. So much so that we even "ferberized" him and let him cry it out going to bed. How I regret that every day. So stupid. And I had read the attachment books....what was I thinking?????!!!! I listened to family and took the easy road.

Now we have been home 11 months and I am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I am afraid though to think it might be better or getting better. He is really starting to snuggle into me at bedtime. Lays chest-to-chest and turns face towards me - that is new. Starting to look at me...or am I imagining it? I'm afraid to believe he is really looking at me.

Darn! Must go now he just woke up. More later - great forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!