[Dawnzlight]

Dear Posters,


I adopted my son, when he was 8, he is now 18. I dont want to make this too long winded, but not sure how to capsulize it. He was in foster care from the age of 2 til when we adopted him. He knows his birthmom, had 'visits' with her up to that point. Understandibly he has issues with women. He has had counseling in every form and fashion from in home to treatment centers. The last 5 years escalated from passive aggressive behaviors to outright violent, homicidal. He has shown these behaviors in other settings, but primarily he lashes out at me. He has been arrested, he has been put in detention centers, jail and several youth programs, such as Outdoor programs and the last one was a 'independent living program"....which made him no more independent than a newborn baby. He has been out since June of 2003 when he turned 18. We let him come home. Mistake. We helped him get set up in an apt, he lost it, all of his stuff and ours, and for the next 4 months we rarely saw him, or heard from him-til he called one day asking to go to church, and needing help to get himself out of that situation. We helped him. Also, let him move home, with the main stipulations of: Get your ged, drivers permit, and a job, and join some group for anger management. I see him trying. He has been fired from one job, and does depend on me to get him back and forth to his new job that is much further away than the one he had. He is registered for the GED, and will be going this weekend for his permit test.

So, I see progress. But, I also deal everyday with his attitude towards me, his anger, his aggression, every morning as I get up to take him to work, something happens, for instance this morning, I showed him the red clay mud in the entrance, and said, we HAVE to do something about your boots, before the new carpet is ruined ( we moved to a 2 bedroom apartment before christmas, so he could have a room rather than sleeping in the living room) he just began yelling at me, cursing as he walked toward the car. I turned around and told him that he could just walk to work. I let him 'calm' down for 5 minutes. Then went back out and he was gone, so I drove to pick him up ( it would have been noon before he got there) My intentions were to get him in the car, to work, then tell him he had to work on finding alternative transportation...that I wasnt going to be hollared and cussed at while driving 45 miles a day in city traffic for him.

He darted out in front of me just before I was getting to the exit from the apartment, I slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting him, he is running now like a madman, I rolled the windows down, tooted the horn, he continued to run, and darted once more in front of me, finally he walked up past the car and I told him to get in before he or I got hurt. He got in, but the anger on his face so made me have flashbacks to all the violence we had from him prior. ( he has tried to kill me, plotted, attacked, etc.)

He knows his triggers, I know where and why he does the things he does, but he is 18 1/2 now... and I am again trying to do 'all the right things'...say all the right things, hoping that I will help him be productive and get a good start in life. But I am so tired of his aggression toward me. How he talks to me. I have clearly communicated to him that its not acceptable. And now I have given him til his birthday in June to accomplish his GED and save money to get his own place/room/something....he has mentioned joining the military..

In the meantime, I have to find some peace in accepting that I am helping out a young man that loves to hate me. I know where it comes from, he does too. But he is not ready to deal with it, and frankly I am tired of dealing with it. I want him to know I dont give up on him, like his birth mom did, so it seems like, if I tell him he has to get a taxi (very expensive), he will not be able to save money, he may lose his job, then its 'my fault' for not taking him, therefore-I am the bad guy again.

I dont know how to 'win' this situation. I am very weary and concerned once again, when I saw his major dangerous outburst this morning.

Not sure what I expect if anyone responds, maybe I am just venting.

Dawn in Ga

[qs mom]

Do you have a trusted councelor or therapist you could discuss it with?

[Dawnzlight]

Actually, yes, I do. And I belong to a parent connect group at my church for families with troubled teens.

Thanks,
Dawn

[Dragonfly82]

Hi Dawn ~ You said, 'He knows what his triggers are' and you do to. What are the triggers? (If you don't mind my asking)

I have quite a few questions ~ In what way did his birth mother 'give up' on him? Was she part of the problem? If so, is there a possibility that she has changed? Was there abuse from his birth mother? Were the counselors that he has seen specialists in adoption (abuse?)? Does he ever talk about his birth mother? What about the birth father? Did your husband (or other male figure) ever play a role in his life?

If you don't want to answer, I understand . . . but am very curious, it's hard to try to help when there are so many unanswered questions.

My heart goes out to you . . . I will pray for your strength, courage and weary heart.

[Sledge]

How often does he go to counceling and do you go as a family?

[Dawnzlight]

Thanks for your responses and questions....


Lets see..


Birth mom-- she abandoned my son and his siblings, my son was placed in a psych unit after being unable to 'control' him after placed at the age of 2 when found in his crib and no adults. The other siblings were placed with the grandmother.

Birth mom continued to be in and out of jail and drug using. My son visited with birth mom up to the age of 8, when she 'plea bargained' a lesser sentence if she would relinquish her parental rights. I think she is serving yet again in prison. My mom tries to keep us informed as we moved from NY to GA-it was a few months after leaving NY that the violence escalated and he took a 10 inch butcher knife and a baseball bat to me. It has never gotten better. And the fact may be he resents the heck out of me, for leaving NY and his chances of ever reuniting with his mom... he of course denies all of the above.


When we arrived on the scene, as the foster family he lived with for 4 years, decided they just didnt want to commit to adopting him for their personal reasons. But he called the foster mother ... Mom.

He hasnt seen her since she relinquished her rights, in fact I do believe she is still incarcerated. The birth father, we only know of his name. Never contacted.


My son currently is not in any counseling. I enrolled him in a local m.health program, but he is in the initial interviewing stages, and had to cancel his first counseling appt. Until he goes for that session, he cannot participate in the anger management group.

I have had counselors that have been trained in sexual abuse, adoption, and troubled and homicidal teens. We have done family and individual counseling. Most of the time, he played games, lied, etc. I just found a thread on RAD-reactive attachment disorder, and I do believe that is a big part of his issues...Since he has dealt with rejection over and over all of his life: birth mom, grandmother, foster mom...etc...

I want to be part of his healing, but often times, like this morning, I feel I am more of a hindrance than anything.

My husband and son get along greatly... husband was an over the road truck driver tho for most of the last 5 years, and was home every other weekend. But he did have other male role models in his life, such as my brother in law, and church youth leaders.


I hope to be part of his counseling, they have said that it would be wonderful if he would allow us to counsel as a family, but I cannot force him at this age now. He needs to have us there because he lies so, and frankly it will be a waste of time if he has no one to hold him accountable. They will only hear what he chooses to tell them or what he fabricates. We have talked this over with him as well, but I do not see it making a difference to him. He is a consumate liar. Even with 'evidence' in hand, he will lie til he is blue in the face, and continue to lie.

Thank you for your prayers... .:: takes a deep breath:::: Does mean alot to me,
Dawn

[Dawnzlight]

I forgot to address the question about 'triggers'

My son knows that stress, feeling backed into a corner about anything-real or imagined, frustration can trigger him into a spiralling rage.

His biggest trigger seems to be: ME

I can say anything, even a compliment can turn into a battle.

Yet my husband can walk in the room, say the same thing, and it is received as it was intended.

It is like my son has this filter that scrambles anything that comes from me, or represents me, etc.

He then goes into these areas:

Exxageration: (he said to me before he got out of the car to go to work, 'If YOU hadnt tried to run me over this morning!") Um.. er.. HE was the one that ran out in front of my car from the bushes!

Mind reading or jumping to conclusions: "YOU SAID I had to move out." Um..... no, I said you have 6 months to get your GED, drivers permit, steady job or military....

Lack of accountability, not accepting responsibilities/discounting/blaming: "I was fired because of miscomunication".. no you were fired because you refused to do assigned tasks and called a co worker a *****.

His major hot button is simply being annoyed. He has had anger counseling, so much so, he knows just what to say at those meetings, sessions, but never implements things, or does it when it is convenient for him.


My hot buttons as a parent:

I hate disrespectful tones of voices, I hate being ignored, I hate being cussed at, and I hate ingrattitude-you owe it to me kind of attitude.

My husband is aware of what occured this morning, and we are going to sit down and discuss this tonite, but I will be honest with you, I wouldnt be surprised if my son does something to sidetrack the whole thing. Some drama will occur undoubtedly.

Dawn

[dadfor2]

hi dawn

sorry, cant help you, but i do have questions, more for my personal info, hope you dont mind.

quick overview:
my 7 yr old was placed with us about 8 months ago, the first 2 months were great then came the testing.

soon, it got way out of control, there was no reason for half his tantrums, alot had to do with not really hearing what i was saying and not getting what he wanted (limits). also, he seems very sensitive to tone of voice, if you dont say something the write way, we have to say it over and over until we get the write tone. (very odd)

2 months ago we had to place him in an RTC, he is only 7 yrs old. He was moved from foster home to foster home since he was 4 and was abused and neglected by his birthmother before that.

my questions:

does this sound familiar to your situation at all. I am very nervous having my child come home in 3-4 months. He is a loving child and i love him alot, but i am nervous about it. I will have him in therapy for a long time. We have not finalized this adoption yet. we are not going to until we are comfortable with the situation. His younger brother seems to be fine, and no need for the kind of services that our 7 yr old is getting. BUt I also bring him to therapy too, hes only 5, but his past needs to be addressed also.

I am more nervous about the future and i know i cant predict the future, but if hes this angry now, my 7 yr old, how will he be when he gets to be a teenager.

I guess i just want to know, when your son was younger, was he in therapy? did he have go to a RTC? does this all sound very familiar to you?

i guess im wondering, is your situation our future?

dadfor2

[Dawnzlight]

Hi Dad,

Dont apologize for your questions, I wish I had access to this forum during the last 10 years... .


Unfortunately, yes, your situation is very much an echo of what has happened with our son.


The foster family that he was in decided that he was just too much to handle and didnt adopt him. I was told differently. I was told that they had decided they were to old and their bio children were 18 at that time, and werent prepared to parent any longer.


Found out AFTER the adoption our son had been setting fires in their basement, sexual acting out with other children, etc.

I wish I could tell you that with our love, support and family environment and extreme counseling, that we have made it to age 18 1/2 with a fairy tale ending.

Its a hard road, to enter the lives of these children at age 7 ..8..etc.. and I dont mean to discourage anyone from doing so, just to empower them with the truth, with solid realistic expectations, support, and encouragement. If we ignore these children, I am not sure our society can handle the outcome of that either. I just know I am not sure I can handle the outcome anymore in my family and life.

I have had relationships tested, lost, broken thru the ongoing saga with my son. We have had Social services involved many times, accused of child abuse, cleared of all charges... but people believe what they will. I have adults, pastors, dr's look me in the face and tell me they think my son is very intelligent and I was over reacting. ( He is great at fooling people, and making me look outrageous) My own sisters didnt believe me for the longest time, until one of them moved in with me and saw him in action. My other sister just prior to that, actually was the one who reported us for child abuse, believing the lies he was telling her. I lost a 8 month old baby we were in the process of beginning to adopt because of the 'investigation'.........

I have so many 'horror' stories of what this child has done to my life, my marriage, my family. Yet, I let him move back home, AGAIN.

I am asking myself why? I thought it was because I truly hoped he was changing, and wanting to improve and move in a healthy direction and heal relationships....

I don't think it was any of the above now.

Sorry, I got off the tangent of answering your questions....

I think you are wise to really evaluate the situation, prior to adopting, and perhaps it really will be too much for your family to adopt this child. It does take more involvement, commitment to raise a child that has these anger issues, etc.. and there arent very many social workers, therapists or followups after adoption, or continued support to assist. At least there wasnt for me/us.

[dadfor2]

thanks dawn for your experience and responding so quickly.

We truly dont know what to do. This kid has attached to us. though he does have attachment issues, he clearly has attached.

on christmas, all he wanted to bring back to the RTC was the presents we gave him and not the ones that santa gave him. Santa gave him all the fun ones....

He is so sensitive, and his self-estemm is shot. The problem is that we love him.

The therapist keeps asking us if he want him back, but we dont know. I am trying my hardest not to think with my heart, but i can imagine life without this child in it. Oh, his younger brother is with us also which puts more of a spin on things.

his younger brother misses him alot also. Its just so scary. I told them, we will keep doing what were doing, visiting him everyday, taking him home for visits, and see how this all plays out. We dont expect a miracle, but just for him to handle his anger better. he has alot to be angry about, the poor little guy.

dadfor2

[HarrysGirl]

My daughter has many of the same issues. She is currently 21 and out of our home. I am thrilled. It is the first peace my family has seen in 18 years.

The lying, stealing, not taking responsibility for her actions, not learning from consequences, bad attitude, did I say stealing? all drove me nuts. Living with her was hell. Therapy did not really do any good, nor did meds. You know that joke how can you tell when a lawyer is lying? "their lips were moving" I felt that way about my daughter, she was always lying. As you said the truth about something could be right in front of her and she would argue about it. The interesting thing is I don't think she knew it or could change. I believe her perception of things was skewed.
In her case it was Fetal Alcohol that caused her brain to suffer damage prenatally.

She looks and sound "normal" on the outside so other people could not understand my attitude. They did not know she was always lying. She lied to teachers, friends, therapists, everyone.
We had rages and meltdown in our house that scared me. She had thoughts about killing me also. I feared getting a heart attack from her also. Gotta go for now.

Wishing you luck, knowing it will not get easier as long as he lives with you.

[dadfor2]

now you got me thinking.

i wonder if there are any sucess stories out there.

maybe i should put a new post out there to see what happens.

dadfor2

[lucyjoy]

You are wise to see that your 18 year old needs to be held accountabe, however, you keep rescuing him. I realize you do this out of love, but that allows him to make the problem yours and not his.

My suggestion would be to set guidelines like you have, but stick to them. If he verbally assualts you when you offer him a ride, refuse to drive him again unless he asks you politely for a ride. If he loses his job, that's a natural life consequence for him.

If he's given a time limit and the tools necessary to complete his GED and chooses not to, that becomes his problem-provided you're willing to let him deal with the consequence of having no place to live. Or, you could charge him rent if he fails to finish by a certain date.

If he doesn't get his driver's permit or liscence in the specified time-he no longer gets free transportation. He gets his own or pays you.

If he can't be civil to you, he can stay in his own room or you could ask him to leave-whichever makes you more comfortable.

Put all of it in writing the way you want it and have him sign a copy. Then stick to it.

[Dawnzlight]

Success....


I have learned to change how I measure success. Ok, maybe I havent totally learned.. let me rephrase: I am learning!

Yesterday, he woke up on NY's day, and left the house after taking 'his' money from my pocketbook, no note, nothing. But came back in 2 hours later, with a birthday gift for me, and apologized for going in my purse w/out asking first, but he wanted to get a gift for me.

Why is that a success? He actually bought me a present. First time on his own. How he went about it was not in the manner that I truly appreciated...but.........


Love... I can so relate to what you shared dad... I can still remember the first day I met our son... his brilliant smile... lost my heart that moment to him..

Thats why we do it, love. And once there are heart commitments, it truly is hard to make these decisions. Having the other brother with you guys, means there will always be a connection...and possibly a continual reminder of what he will see as a rejection, even tho that is HARDLY the case.

Every time we took our son to visit one of his sisters, we had to deal with that fact, that she was with them, he wasnt.

It just feels like my family has just been part of the big bandaide put on his life, and the bandaid keeps falling off... reopening the wound underneath... ya know?

I would like to hear of others that adopted angry older children and how they faired....

Thank you to the other lady that posted and shared her similar story with her daughter :::::::hugs:::::::::

Dawn

[Dawnzlight]

Originally posted by lucyjoy
You are wise to see that your 18 year old needs to be held accountabe, however, you keep rescuing him. I realize you do this out of love, but that allows him to make the problem yours and not his.


::::::::::::I agree, I do keep rescuing, hard not to, tough love is not fun, but very necessary... :::



Put all of it in writing the way you want it and have him sign a copy. Then stick to it.

::::::::: Excellent idea, thank you... My husband just nodded and said lets do that.. thank you..::::::::

Dawn