[eomaia]

I found out today that my kids have been placed with their prospective adoptive parents, who still will not have direct contact with me. I do not know what they are telling the kids- but Vlad is refusing to call them Mom and Dad, and Lucy won't because Vlad won't.

My theory is that they see it as letting go of and/or betraying me. I don't understand why the adoptive parents won't allow contact with me- well, I'm assuming that my ex has given them some twisted version of the story, or that they just feel threatened, like Vlad and Lucy can't love all of us. My instincts are that Vlad doesn't believe whatever story he's been told, and he hopes that if he just causes enough problems, eventually he'll be able to come home to me.

An adoptive mom I know once told me that it's huge if bio-moms can give their kids permission to love someone else. I'd be willing to do that, to help them feel like this is their family now, that I'm still here, I still love them, I can still be a part of their lives, but that they can love their adoptive parents too, enjoy going to Disneyworld all the time, that there's no such thing as too much love, and they can't run out of love no matter how many people they give it to.

Any insight anyone can give would be appreciated. I don't have direct contact, but there's a couple grapvines to go through. I just want to know what I can do to help my kids, and help these people put the kids above their own insecurities or whatever.

[millie58]

It's hard to say without knowing more. Older kids usually feel very loyal to their biological families. Is this a fost/adoptive case? I don't know why the pre-adoptive parents won't allow communication.

[Jensboys]

I adopted older kids (and we do have ongoing contact) - but I think a HUGE thing for the kids is "permission" from their existing attachments to continue to attach. My sons' birth father was able to do that for my boys, and even though they didn't know or remember him - it still means A LOT that he did that. They KNOW he wants them to succeed and thrive and grow and love and they KNOW that he thinks highly of us.

My suggestion is that you send a letter (or a series of letters) to your kids through the social worker if you can. I would attach a letter to the aparents and explain to them that you want ONLY good things for your children (both your children) and are willing to do anything to support them through this difficult time, and in the kids journey of entwining themselves into a new family. And then write letters to the kids. Letters that talk about your hopes and dreams for them. Letters that talk about your love for them, but also your "love" for their new parents. Letters that talk about how you hope they are feeling (happy, joyful, loving, attaching) and letters expressing your confidence in their new family (if that is at all possible for you to do). I can tell you that my sons have FAR fonder feelings for their birth parent that gave them this permission than their birth parent that didn't. And knowing that I can count on their birth father to support US as we support THEM has been the best thing ever. It took time.

[eomaia]

My ex was abusive and manipulated the system so we'd both be TPR'd and his sister could adopt our children. He told me he would teach them to hate me and that he hoped once I realized I'd never see my kids again, I'd kill myself. As of our final visit, Vlad was 7, and Lucy was 5. I'd never missed a visit, I fought for them until TPR was final, I did everything in my case plan.

The pre-adoptive parents are my ex's sister and her husband. I'd always tried to be friendly to them, even made a quilt when they got married. They were TTC when I got pregnant with Lucy, and she got VERY upset when she found out. After that, we had no contact with his family for 6 months, it was like they blamed me for her infertility, as if I'd stolen her chance to have a baby. They had minimal involvement in our lives for a couple years, then my then-husband quit his job, and things got really bad and we started getting into trouble with CPS. His family hovered like vultures when the kids went into foster care, then tried to convince me to just give up on my kids when my ex finally left. I didn't, and they haven't talked to me since. They sat there and made faces during the TPR hearing like they didn't believe a word I said. So, it's hard for me to see anything positive in them.

I tried sending Vlad a birthday present last year, they donated it to the Salvation Army unopened. For Valentine's Day, I sent them a care box full of treats and fun stuff, I don't know if they were allowed to have that or if it just got tossed out.

From what I can tell, they're cooperating with my ex's plan to brainwash my kids to hate me. It's also possible they're telling my kids I'm dead, but it seems more probable that they've been told I don't want them, don't love them, won't talk to them, etc. Maybe they haven't even been given an explanation of why they can't see me or talk to me. I've done a lot of work on getting to a point where I can forgive them, I understand they're afraid, angry, insecure, etc, and that in their own twisted way, they do love Vlad and Lucy. It's just hard for me to understand how someone could want to put a child they love through the pain and trauma of losing their Mother, and how they could not want to make it better ASAP.

A friend says it's because my existence reminds her that her uterus doesn't work, so it's easier to pretend like I never was. There's a lot of me that is so proud of my boy for fighting against the crazy people holding him captive- but I know he'll be happier and healthier if we can make peace, so I keep extending olive branches even though they just ignore them.

[wasabi75]

If I can weigh in for a moment as a child of divorce and a mom who is divorced and has seen her kids go through the transitions there. I was forced to call my stepfather "Daddy" from the second he married my mom when I was 4. They also illegally changed my last name. At first my dad was still around and I knew he wasn't supposed to know about these things. And that just increased my discomfort. Eventually my mom continued to manipulate the situation until I finally stopped seeing my dad when I was 6. This was not an abuse situation or foster or anything other than my mom hating my dad.

I know I felt very uncomfortable with the expectation of calling my stepfather "Daddy." Yes some of it was about being loyal to my dad, but some of it also was that my stepfather just was not my dad. It didn't matter that my mom intended for my stepfather to serve as my dad for the rest of my life (he did eventually adopt me as an adult so that they didn't have to get my dad's permission), the fact was he was not my dad. It's interesting to me that aparents are often very sensitive to the idea of biological parents being called mom or dad because they haven't "done the work of parenting" and yet in an older child foster/adopt situation would expect to be called mom or dad before doing the work of parenting. In this situation I can think of nothing worse than these children being pressured to give titles to the foster parents that have not been earned. Additionally aren't these people they have previously known as aunt and uncle? That can only add to the confusion for them I am sure.

I don't know that I would view this refusal as a sign that is anything is wrong so it's not that it's something that you need to address. This is something that time will address and the more pressure is put on them the more difficult the situation will be for everyone. The children will call the aparents mom and dad when they feel like mom and dad to them.

[eomaia]

I did the work of parenting, I just didn't parent while I was at work, didn't think anyone would intentionally neglect his own children when he knew the social worker and GAL were coming over.

Vlad has Asperger's and needs a lot of routine. He usually needs to do something a lot before he gets the hang of it- like going to the library, we went almost every day, he knew exactly where the shelf was with the dinosaur books, and as long as we stuck with his routine, he was great. Try to vary that routine, like go to Walmart and not let him spend a few minutes in the game room, then he'd have a total meltdown.

The GAL said I couldn't give him the consistency he needed, even though I was the one who had figured out he needs routines and taken him over and over and over again to the store and the library and the park, no matter how many times it went badly because I knew he would get the hang of it, and that if he was just left sitting home to avoid inconvenient public behavior, he'd never learn.

So, the GAL said that because he needs so much routine, he should be sent across the country to an aunt and uncle who'd only met the kids a few times. It doesn't surprise me that this is not going well, but apparently the a-parents had different expectations, possibly like in Annie when Daddy Warbucks rescues her from the orphanage.

[wasabi75]

Originally Posted by eomaia

I did the work of parenting, I just didn't parent while I was at work, didn't think anyone would intentionally neglect his own children when he knew the social worker and GAL were coming over.

I wasn't meaning to imply anything about you not doing the work of parenting. I am sure that you did. When I was talking about labels and doing the work I was not saying anything about you. I was saying it was odd that the aparents expect to be given those labels at this stage when they had not earned them yet, which is something you have to do with children this old.

[eomaia]

I just wanted to give more context...I found a similar thread on here, which mentioned that some foster kids have never had a consistent parent in their lives. My kids got bounced through a few short term foster homes before finding a good fit. The foster parents asked to be called Auntie Firstname and Uncle Firstname, but there were other kids in the home, and my kids started calling them Mommy Firstname and Daddy Firstname. They've stayed in touch all along, with me and with the a-parents. There was another foster home the kids were in later, but they always called that set of foster parents by their first names. After that, they were with their paternal grandparents for months, maybe a year, and CPS gave 2 days notice that they were being transferred to the aunt and uncle across the country.

The former foster mother and I agree that CPS has a decision making process involving a dartboard, a blindfold, and lots of tequila.

[wcurry66]

I finalized the adoption of my DD one year ago. She still doesn't call me mom on a regular basis (she does when she's tired, cuddly, or being goofy)

From what I hear, thats not uncommon. We opted not to push it. Kids have so little control over their life when they are foster kids. Ultimately, the title has nothing to do with the bonding, imo.

From watching your experiences, it really seems the your ex and the APs are cutting their own throats. Asbergers is a very literal, black & white type of existence. If your son disagrees with the title, forcing it is not going to go over well.

Their choice to cut you completely out of the kids' lives, rather than letting the kids feel a more natural transtion. that choice is only going to make them look like the bad guy in their eyes.

hang in there

[TxMom65]

My daughter was in foster care for several years before coming to us, not really remembering her birthmom and never knowing her birthdad. She had nicknames for her foster parents, Uncle Bob and Nanny.

She called us mom and dad from day 1 and to be honest, it was akward for me. It sunk in quickly but the words daughter and mom were shocking.

Each adoption is so different. I hope they do open up to some contact in the future. I would offer to be available for medical history questions. I was very glad that I went against CPS advice and opened contact with the birthfamily when my daughter had emergency surgery.

More than that, they do need to know that you love them. I hope those in charge will at least get counseling for them. I will tell you what my daughter wants to know from her birthmom....The truth. We have copies of all files (she hasn't read them) but she wants honesty and to know that she is loved.

[eomaia]

Yes...and in 9 years, Vlad will be 18, and it will be completely up to him who he wants to have in his life or not. If you watch Bones and are familiar with Dr Zack Addy, that's what I see Vlad being like as an adult. He's very smart, but even as a young child sometimes came across as creepy/weird/morbid, like the time that he felt his eye sockets while looking in the mirror and said "Mommy, I have a skull under my face!" or telling other kids in kindergarten he wanted to dig up human skeletons and work in a museum.

I hope he will have lots of positive and supportive relationships as he grows into adulthood, but that can't be forced. During our final visit, he asked if he'd be able to see me, and I said that would be up to his new mommy and daddy, and he has a good memory. He knows I want to see him, talk to him, and that they are choosing not to allow contact.

[svan040395]

So, I'm wanting to go into social work, so this is pretty interesting to me... I hope I'm not being OVERLY intrusive, but I was just wondering what the reason CPS said they had for taking your kids from your home in the first place and why now that your ex is gone that you cannot be reunited with them?

If you are clean/sober, did not abuse your kids, have ANY means to support them and are not in jail, then WHY are they not allowing you to have them back?

I was always under the impression that the state WANTS people to have their kids if at all possible- even if it's not the "best" situation. But I'm hearing more and more stories of kids being taken away and not being given back for very small reasons!!

[CaddoRose]

Originally Posted by svan040395

So, I'm wanting to go into social work, so this is pretty interesting to me... I hope I'm not being OVERLY intrusive, but I was just wondering what the reason CPS said they had for taking your kids from your home in the first place and why now that your ex is gone that you cannot be reunited with them?

If you are clean/sober, did not abuse your kids, have ANY means to support them and are not in jail, then WHY are they not allowing you to have them back?

I was always under the impression that the state WANTS people to have their kids if at all possible- even if it's not the "best" situation. But I'm hearing more and more stories of kids being taken away and not being given back for very small reasons!!

We adopted our DD through foster care, but she should have never been in foster care. She was not abused, her parents did not do drugs, they had a home, means of support, etc and yet still, the state terminated both parents. If the state had the means they would have been able to offer inhome support services to these parent and she would have been able to stay with her family. This all because a CW found every reason in the world to make it happen. We have now developed an open adoption with both parents.

[millie58]

Caddorose and eomaia: why were the kids in care? L, my 2nd oldest, came into care because someone from bio mom's church "encouraged" her to give them up. My 2 youngest came because mom did drugs. I find it amazing that cw's can play god with families.

[CaddoRose]

The original call was a domestic violence call and since there was no one to take the baby they called CPS. CPS finds out that Mom has a lower IQ and Dad was on probation. Without giving the details, the probation wasn't anything that would have effected his ability to care for his daughter, but somebody decided it would and therefore did everything they could to terminate. The baby was neglected, but not to the extent that this situation could not have been helped with intervention instead of termination. Basically, my DD lost her family and that is very sad to me. She now has a full blood sibling who is being raised by both parents. So we are doing everything we can to give her family back to her by having an open adoption.