[DannieAS]

<sigh> I didn't go into detail or even pretended to have advice for the specific bio/adopted children question that the OP had. I don't even pretend to give advice for teenagers/children etc....unless it has to do with speech and language.

That being said, if she hasn't gone into the training classes, these phrases of "not saving a child" are said night in and night out! My point in saying that was for her to know how some sw's through the county/state/agency may feel about it and yes it's part of the homestudy discussion in your home...at least it was in mine.

Adopting an older child IS tough because of past issues. Many of my students are in FC or have been adopted as older children (10 y/o+) and I know it's not always a picnic...from that aspect school wise/IEP/Mental Health wise, sometimes you do have to question motives for adopting....that's all.

[LunaSeaBloom]

Originally Posted by mdesi

Okay, Please don't adopt a child. I would hate to have parents who were so interested in social and environmental causes that adoption just fell into that category. TBPH, I found a lot of your posts pretty offensive. First, all children are "natural born." There is no factory that produces children for adoption. Any adoptable child will also have natural origins. Second, the socially and environmentally sound reasons you listed for adoption makes it sound like people and children are just another item to recylce. Never adopt b/c you think it is a new and great cause for you. Given your posts and reasons stated, it would not be the responsible thing to do.

Now if you are open to learning more about adoption, and open to building your family through adoption, that is great. If you are ready to learn language that is not offensive to people in the adoption triad, this is an excellent place to do that.

Building a family through adoption is a beautiful thing to do if you are in it to build a family and love someone who will not have a biological tie unconditionally.

To answer your question about if people can love children who are not biologically tied to them as much as those who are, I can tell you that I have. I love my step son, nieces and nephews, and two friends' children with the same depth of love that I have for my family of origin. Also, many people on this board have correctly pointed out that most of us love of our spouses with a strong deep love. I know that I do, and we are definitely not tied by biology.

First, many thanks to all who have given their thoughts and/or advice. And, my deepest appologies if any of the 'terms' I use offend anyone. I'm new to all this and learning. Also, I should clarify that my husband and I are looking to adopt a few years from now. I guess I just believe in being as prepared as humanly possible and getting as much insight and information as I can. Moving on...

mdesi: "many people on this board have correctly pointed out that most of us love of our spouses with a strong deep love"

Of course, I certainly love my husband deeply. We're committed to our parnership. But, there's no comparison to how I feel about him vs. our children. Given a burning building scenario, I wouldn't hesitate to save the kids before giving him a thought. The depth of love I feel toward our kids is akin to a lioness, willing to lay down her life... a passion that goes beyond rational thought. Wheras my adoration of my husband is rational. He's my best friend and partner. I'd be deluding myself if I thought that the love I feel toward everyone around me is the same. My search is to discover if, having biological children of my own, would the love I feel be akin to the familial love I feel for, say, my nephew or more akin to the partnership with my husband or would that love be able to match the fierce love I feel for the children of my womb.

DannieAS: "The pats on the back eventually go away and then that's when parenting remains. If you're comfortable adopting a child and parenting them when everyone else has stopped congratulating you for it, then go for it"

So, kudos for trying to save the world are not a factor. I'm even emotionally prepared for the possibility that a child we adopt may never really love me or the family. My biggest concern is for that child. I don't want to bring them into our family if it turns out the love I feel for them would be less than the love I have for my biological children and that difference ends up hurting that adopted child. I want to help a child and love a child and give that child a family... a support network, not end up causing them more hurt because they discern a difference in how I feel about them.

MilehighDad:
Thank you. Really. I feel like you 'get' my questions and concerns. I want to help a child and give them a chance. Give them a loving and supportive family. I'm just trying to figure out if I'll love them any less than my biological kids and _if_ that's the case, would they be better off aging out of the system without a family. Which is the lesser of those two evils? And, I suppose somewhere in my heart, I know the answer is that nobody can answer that question. It'll depend on me and that child.

I suppose a more practical question would be: Is it reasonable to expect to be able to find a child that wouldn't pose a threat to the other children in my family? I understand that many of these kids come from painful circumstances. Even simply being shuffled between foster families can hurt. Were I in a circumstance to safely adopt an abused child, I'd willingly take that on, but I know that would be deeply iresponsible. And social workers able to work with families to find a child whose past circumstances would pose minimal risk to my biologicals? Is there a reasonable amount of honesty about the circumstances these kids are coming from?

Again, many thanks for everyone's resopnses so far. I know you're all coming from places of love and concern.

[mdesi]

Again, at the risk of taking flaming arrows, I don't think you are ready to adopt. That is not to say that you will not be, but biology seems to be very important to you in your explanation of your love and bond for your children. I know that you will think I am pretending when I say that I have that same mother bear instinct for my niece and nephew and step son, and even for my DH as you have for your biological children. (Just ask the guy at the park who found fault with my darling niece, and you will know that is true, or the fact that I once dove into icy water w/o even thinking to save her from drowning when everyone else just stood there.) I know the answer for me is "Yes, I can/will love my child who joins my life path through adoption as much as I could any child of my womb." If you are not there yet, it is not the time to adopt. There is nothing wrong with not being there. Adoption is most certainly not for everyone. I read once that only 25% of the people who look into adoption go onto adopt a child. I sincerely believe that it is in your heart and your consciousness that you can love a child not related to you or it isn't. Again, there is nothing wrong with you if it is not in your heart.

Mile High, I will agree to disagree with you. I don't think it is a good idea to adopt with the primary purpose of saving the world. As for the other stuff, I stand by it. That is how the posts came across to me, which is why how we use our words is so important.

Luna Sea, Thank you for taking the time to learn more about adoption.

[MilehighDad]

Ok Dannie, I apologize for including you in my flaming, in fact I really don't want to flame at all. I have a great common tie with this entire community, with how we all feel about adoption. I just get really frustrated when the community turns on someone who is expressing their legitimate feelings and concerns as best they can, and then they get invalidated for it.

Luna was expressing a very common concern about how she would really feel about an adopted child. I'm glad she's worried and thinking about it, because then she will take the time and make the right decision for her family in the end. I think we all need to help each other work through those feelings, not react and tell people their reasons are wrong and they shouldn't adopt. No one said saving the world was her main reason, in fact what she said most clearly was that she wanted a larger family. It is her other beliefs about the world and her priorities that led her to thinking about adoption. Why are those reasons less valid than the couple who are unable to bear children turning to adoption?

I think I made it clear, but I will vote with the husband that a child is better off with Luna's best committed effort than being left in foster care. That opinion comes from getting to know kids in foster care very well, who all desperately need a family to fight for them with a passion that goes beyond rational thought. Knowing that they belong and that thier adoptive parents wanted them and will fight for them is tremendously important to kids. You'll never cheat anyone that you do your best for, including your kids.

To answer Luna's practical question, yes social services can find a child who is not a known risk to other children in the home. There are no guarantees that come with kids, though, whether they are adopted or born to you. For this reason as well as others, you would be taking less of a chance if you let your kids get a bit older before adopting from foster care. There are no set answers, though, and what won't work for one family and one child may work for another.

[LunaSeaBloom]

mdesi:

I know that you will think I am pretending when I say that I have that same mother bear instinct for my niece and nephew and step son, and even for my DH as you have for your biological children. (Just ask the guy at the park who found fault with my darling niece, and you will know that is true, or the fact that I once dove into icy water w/o even thinking to save her from drowning when everyone else just stood there.)

Please understand that I mean this with all due respect, but I think only a parent with biological children of their own could understand what I'm questioning. I do understand being fiercely protective of family and friends. I've run into harm's way to protect my brother and I've flown off the handle defending my best friend's child (who I helped deliver), but having birthed children, I know from experience that the core of that protective emotion is different than the protection I feel for my kids. I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings. I'm just trying to find information from someone who would understand the circumstance I'm coming from. Someone who has biological children and had grown their family through adoption. I recognize that there's a chemical reaction in the maternal brain that often occurs at birth which causes the bond I'm failing to describe. I need to know if that chemical response happens in adoption.

So, to clarify, what you believe is that it would be better for a child to age out of the system without ever being adopted and given a permanent family than for that child to be adopted by someone who questions her chemical ability to love that child with the exact same intensity of her biological children?

And the irony is, I may be able to love an adopted child the same. But because there's no way to really know until I try...

The basis for this search is a genuine desire to grow my family and give a child love and support, the same as I give the two kids I already have. I'd be happiest adopting, because I believe children need a family and I'd love to be that family for a child who needs one. But if there's a chance I can't love that kid with the same intensity as my bios and it would be better for them to not have a family at all, then, so be it. I can always bear another child.

It seems like most of the posters feel it's better to leave a child in the system than take a chance.
LunaSea

[crick]

I'm glad you are asking this question because I think too often people just assume they can love any child and it's "not a big deal". Then once the child is home they wonder why they don't feel anything. Neither is "wrong", but I do believe those who question and discuss are far likely to have better results than those who do not.

I don't think anyone can really answer your question but you, however, maybe an "easier" way to answer it is to ask it slightly differently. "IF I adopt a child and I don't think I can bond after a certain amount of time with him/her, can I remain committed and show the love regardless if I don't feel the "connection".

Does that make sense? I would also ask yourself how you view love for a child. Meaning, do you love your children only because they are your biological children? You love all sorts of things about your child and maybe you don't connect on every level (personalities etc.) but you love them. Is that only because of a genetic factor?

As for the "saving a child" factor that has been discussed. I'm of the opinion that no child should bear that responsibility and pressure. It's a lot to live up to if they see or feel that they owe you a life of gratitude because you "saved" them. I believe too that it shouldn't be the SOLE and ONLY reason a person adopts.

HOWEVER - if we really get down to the nitty gritty of the reasons why we adopt can any of us truly say it's only for purely selfish reasons of wanting a family? I say it all the time that I simply wanted a family and that is indeed true. But why didn't I then adopt a baby privately and why did I feel a "pull" towards the foster care system? My heart broke looking at all the waiting children lists and I knew my child was one of them. So there is a bit of "saving" factor I think, although it's not the right word really. (for me anyway) The difference is it wasn't the motivating factor and I don't think it is for the OP either.

[MilehighDad]

Crick,
I think your response was beautifully stated, and I agree that some soul-searching is right and proper before making any life decisions like adopting.

And, I don't know about the maternal-brain-chemical thing, but I do know that I attached fully and completely to our newest daughter a year before we met her. I had to fight and argue and file complaints and call every week and just keep going before we were ever even matched with her. I fought for her as hard as I would fight for any of our kids, and after she moved in we had more fights with the school district and ICPC. Why did I attach that way - honestly I have no idea, but I just knew that it was right. And, to me that attachment has another name, I loved her unconditionally before meeting her. So, it doesn't work that way for everyone, but it is definitely possible.

[rk36]

We have a 15 year old bio daughter and are adopting our 14 year old foster daughter. We love them both equally. Our 14 year old is so sweet you can't help but love her.

It takes some time to bond but we found that treating them equally makes it easier on them both. Our girls have the same chores, allowance and rules. They are eleven months apart so they do alot of the same things.

We found that by treating (C) with love, respect and understanding she has opened up to us and made it easy to love her. She shares her life stories with us and we share ours with her.

The most important thing to remember is they have experienced things that our bio children have not and we need to be more understanding.

As long as both the girls are doing their best we are happy. (C) had been improving in school since she came to live with us. She is making A's and B's. We are so proud of her.

We kept our birth daughter as the oldest and it has worked well. We feel it is important to keep the birth order. These children have been through so much they will need extra attention. Hope this helps.

[Lorraine123]

LunaSea -

I totally understand your fears. When my daughter was placed with us, I had two biological sons ages 12 and 15. I had concerns about whether I could feel the same love. I truly thought I could, but as the placement date got closer, I got more nervous. I think that is rational.

I have since learned that biology has nothing to do with love. For me, love is an action. I totally chose her to be mine. She is my daughter just as my sons are.

With that said, I will admit that I don't love them the same. My daughter is RAD and she is very hard to love. I have to work at it. But the bottom line is that I would give my life for her.

As far as the save-a-child thing. I did not enter adoption to save anyone. I wanted to be a mom. I had experience with emotional special needs children and I felt that I could handle that. I had the room and the heart for a child. From my experience, if you go into this journey to save a child, you will be very disappointed. When the cute little orphan becomes a raging maniac, you will question your sanity. (and please no one flame me for those terms, it’s just to make a point). The save-a-child motive quickly disappears. The bottom line is that no child wants to think that their parents brought them into the family for noble causes. I do agree that the way you worded your reasons, “for environmental reasons”, makes it sound like it’s a social cause. Hopefully did not mean that exactly has it came across.

I would have reservations about bringing an older child into my home with younger children. People have done it successfully, but I believe that my daughter would not be with me if I had younger children. Her needs are just too great and her behaviors are too erratic. You can try to find a child with minimal risks, but you never know until they are actually in your home a while. Despite what the social workers say, issues are covered up or unknown. I, personally, would not take that risk.

Good luck to you. I think its wise to question these things thoroughly before moving ahead.

[mdesi]

Originally Posted by LunaSeaBloom

mdesi:


Please understand that I mean this with all due respect, but I think only a parent with biological children of their own could understand what I'm questioning. I do understand being fiercely protective of family and friends. I've run into harm's way to protect my brother and I've flown off the handle defending my best friend's child (who I helped deliver), but having birthed children, I know from experience that the core of that protective emotion is different than the protection I feel for my kids. I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings. I'm just trying to find information from someone who would understand the circumstance I'm coming from. Someone who has biological children and had grown their family through adoption. I recognize that there's a chemical reaction in the maternal brain that often occurs at birth which causes the bond I'm failing to describe. I need to know if that chemical response happens in adoption.

LunaSea

Absolutely no offense taken on my side. I think the best example I can give as to why that brain chemical you write about is not necessarily tied to act of growing a child in the womb is the fact that there is such a need for foster-adoption. Obviously, it is not a given that every woman who goes through pregnancy and childbirth develops that. However, there are many women on this board who have done both adoption and birth and have said many times that they could not tell you the difference in their love and bond to either child. I don't think bringing a child into a family by having that genetic connection is the only way to build that bond.

While I don't think a child should age out of the system, I do think that people who choose to adopt that child better make the decision to love that child no matter what. Every child deserves to be in a family with parents who have made that commitment. No child deserves to be in a family in which there is doubt of a parent's love or that they are second best to other children in the home. Many have already been in situations in which there is a doubt about the level of love for them by previous parents. I do think that adults can make that choice, and can make the decision to get help from people with training to help them with that.

Also, please remember that the kids in danger of aging out of the system are much older than 7. If that truly a concern, you could look at adopting teens. Several of my friends have done that. It is not easy, but they do love their teens with the same love that you express about your genetic children. In fact, one chose her son over her DH when pressed to either choose him or the boy. (However, she never had a genetic child. Maybe if she did, the bond would be less - IDK.)

My point is that adults who adopt better be sure to make the commitment to love that child, no matter how that child comes into your family and especially if that child has not been loved in the past.

[MilehighDad]

Originally Posted by mdesi

While I don't think a child should age out of the system, I do think that people who choose to adopt that child better make the decision to love that child no matter what.

I agree completely.

[mdesi]

Originally Posted by MilehighDad

I agree completely.