[Sleeplvr]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking troll. That was my first thought when I read the post.

[bethy724]

I'm not sure if my post was an attack but I am stunned that people don't "just know" that calling a person by a physical feature is insulting - your post brought it to light for me.

I guess that I was fortunate enough to grow up in a diverse neighborhood & school system that if you said something racial (me at 5 years old & some people I guess as adults) I got punched & called a name for being Italian -you feel you are getting attacked on the internet - there is really no difference except most people learn manners & consideration toward others as a child-thru their school, neighborhood or religion.

I think your post caught some people off guard that didn't grow up in an all white world - it really was shocking to read the term "fro-baby" & not think that the person must know it is offensive. February is AA month maybe there will be programs or books you can read. You may not realize it but the title of your post is offensive - an AA child is the same as a CC child (as you were taught in school) perhaps it is AA culture you are hear to learn about - a child is a child when it comes to food, discipline, clothes, ect so maybe your here to learn about AA traditions,. culture ect which is so broad - there are so many types of AA culture - Hatian, Jamacian, African, African American ect. I hope to raise my son w/ knowledge of as many cultures, religions, customs ect while instilling our own family traditions - his skin color doesn't amtter to me but I realize it does matter the second we step out of our house.

[devildogwife]

Originally Posted by heart_string

I cannot believe that in this day and time, with the internet, satellite TV, and all of your supposed learning in the education field you would think it ok to use that disgusting 'f-baby' to anyone, anywhere.

(Lord have mercy, I hope this is a troll).

Why can't you believe that? Look at the the way Native American's are used as team mascots-Redskins, Braves, Warriors, Indians, etc. Why is that acceptable to people? It doesn't honor Native American people. It saddens and disgusts the Native American's that I know, yet it is still accepted. If there was a team of the San Antonio Spics, or the New York Negroes, there would be a hug outcry. Yet not for Native Americans, so no, I am not surprised.

ETA-just wanted to clarify my post, as I don't think I said things very succinctly. As the mom of a Native American son, I see a lot of racism that is still acceptable to most people, so to me, even though people should know otherwise, sadly I wasn't surprised.

[Linny]

I would agree that the term 'afro-baby' is offensive; but perhaps everyone needs to take a breath? C'mon, these types of comments are said by ALL ethnicities...even the ones they're supposed to refer to.

We've raised two Asian babies to adulthood; and now the parents to three AA babies growing well and happy. But, I have to tell ya, one of the strongest comments I heard about our 'first' AA baby, was from an AA woman who remarked about her very dark skin by gasping out, "Ohhhhhhhhh!!!!!! You have a CHOCO-BOCO BABY!!!!!'

While I thought the comment was weird...so weird that I asked some of my friends if they'd ever heard of that comment before (none had)-----I didn't find it offensive. Would *I* use it? No, but I don't think the woman exclaiming it meant to offend me---OR my daughter.

As DDW explains, there are a LOT of comment still floating around that are meant to describe someone. Wrong or right (and I know they're wrong, IMO)......it's a matter of what's been acceptable in years past, and NOW considering that those comments are not in the best interest of anyone now, KWIM?

IF...and I say, IF the OP is sincere, stick around and read what's being presented in polite manners. If you're considering adopting any child of color, at least you have the intelligence and foresight to ask now, educate yourself and try to be a better parent.
I've heard much worse about my children and others by people of the same ethnicity....whether adoptive parents or not. I'm NOT excusing the comments in any way; but I think it's too quick to jump on someone about any comments when they said they've come here to learn to begin with.

Sincerely,

Linny

[nickchris]

Hi, I hope you are here to learn, and if so, read around, check out the AAsection under the resource section. Check out the various threads, and the tra section as well. Best wishes.

Now Linny can you explain what offensive comments were made by AA about your kids.? Speaking in general now, I am curious, is it equal to fro baby? I find it interesting that when a point is being made that a counter offensive action by said random AA person is brought up? I do not get that.

[meshsgrl]

I read the AA and TRA adoptions forum quite a bit. I have learned alot here. I was "ignorant" and uneducated when I started this TRA journey.
Missymonkey, I would have loved to ask the question you did, but was afraid to, because of the very thing that happened to you! Everyone jumps all over you for a simple innoncent question. Not everyone has the priviledge of growing up in a racially diverse area.
I want to educate myself for the sake of my children. I want to surround myself with a more diverse group of people, but I am almost scared to do that for fear of offending someone with my lack of knowledge. SO how does one educate themselves without offending someone?

[nickchris]

What is lack of knowledge, terms of endearment for a child? Some terms are not cool, for example; sticking stuff in a Black child's hair, and saying look at how it just stays there. Calling a Black child a little monkey. If I had a CC child, I woud not say come here, "sparkle", or worse.
Be proactive, and even over cautious as a tra parent, forget having issues with pc terms.. you cannot afford to mess up with the child. From a CC to Black vantage: Say the word or phrase, and imagine being in the other person's shoes, and imagine how it feels. Read, read, and read some more. Google racial slang words. I think if one hesitates and have to ask, it may not be a good word, or term.

[Linny]

Now Linny can you explain what offensive comments were made by AA about your kids.? --nickchris

I didn't say that. Read my post again. I said that someone *else* might have taken offense to the comment made about my baby girl, but I didn't believe the woman stating it meant it as so.

Did I think it strong (or weird) to say that to me? Yeah, I did...especially when she yelled it while rushing across the room to see the baby in our pediatrician's office.
I'd asked other people (adoptive parents and other AA individuals) if *they'd * ever heard that term before----they hadn't and thought it was weird.

The point was, someone can make a comment but they don't necessarily mean to be offensive; and that the OP stating she 'wanted to learn more', should be taken as sincere unless/until something is written otherwise, rather than criticizing her right off the bat.

ETA: I see the comment you may have been referring to?

I've heard much worse about my children and others by people of the same ethnicity....whether adoptive parents or not. I'm NOT excusing the comments in any way; but I think it's too quick to jump on someone about any comments when they said they've come here to learn to begin with. ---Linny

I've had people remark about their hair and the style my girls' prefer. (Just pigtails or simple braids, nothing more.) And a few have made comments about how the girls *should* be wearing their hair in this and that styles-----right in front of the girls as if they couldn't even hear or understand what was being said. They are now 7yrs and 5yrs old---they don't appreciate those comments. I've also had one older woman 'challenge' me---in front of the girls, asking rudely 'Why would I want an AA baby/child?!?" And I could have been just as rude and arrogant as that lady was, but knew it wouldn't do any good to return in rudeness, because of her ignorance.

Sincerely,

Linny

[heart_string]

Linny


I've had people remark about their hair and the style my girls' prefer. (Just pigtails or simple braids, nothing more.) And a few have made comments about how the girls *should* be wearing their hair in this and that styles-----right in front of the girls as if they couldn't even hear or understand what was being said. They are now 7yrs and 5yrs old---they don't appreciate those comments. I've also had one older woman 'challenge' me---in front of the girls, asking rudely 'Why would I want an AA baby/child?!?" And I could have been just as rude and arrogant as that lady was, but knew it wouldn't do any good to return in rudeness, because of her ignorance.

Did you correct her, or did you just let her comment pass so that she could go on spreading her ignorance throughout the world?

I am a Black American with a diverse mix of ethnicities in my extended families - and I don't feel it is just my duty - I feel it is everyone's duty to correct someone when they use denigrating statements. Letting it pass, in my eyes, lets it stand.

To the poster with the NA son, I agree with your statements, I have seen things changing in my area in regards to NA mascots, etc - I feel the exact same way about those images as I feel about that 'f' term.

I'll even stretch and concede that everyone does not grow up in diverse areas. But as a previous poster said, and as I stated earlier, this is the INTERNET that we're on. Look up racial slurs, look up offensive images, educate yourself & when you get called on the carpet for something that may not be correct, thank your lucky stars that you ARE on the internet - people in real life may not be so kind as to stick to harsh reprimands.

*i'd never heard of choco-baby either & wouldn't have liked it. maybe when little cc children are called vanilla wafer or something equally ridiculous i won't be so touchy.

[Linny]

When the comments are made, and made again (continued conversation by someone) I stand and tell them 'this is the way my girls prefer'...though it seldom makes them think/stop their conversation. (I'm never sure 'why'?! )

As for the baby comment years ago....she'd said 'Choco-boco baby'........which yes, was strange to me. And on that one, my daughter was still a tiny baby and I was totally taken off-guard at the time. As for the very rude woman, I"ve come to be a bit more forward about my stand. At the time though, I have to say her rudeness was shocking to me. There was no question she meant to be hurtful and nasty.

Sincerely,

Linny

[Sleeplvr]

Linny

I have noticed that you've been on a long term rant in the last year or so about AA's commenting about your DD's hair. You've questioned taste in styles and etc. Yep... I noticed the trend.

What does your DD's hair look like? One thing that I have noticed and I've been black a very long time. LOL... Is that the only time you get suggestions is when the hair is not looking quite right and the standard is not very high IMO. On my bad days I've had hairstylists hand me a business card or even a friend ask "what's going on with your hair?" I even had one friend volunteer to come over and give me a relaxer. I was starting to go chemical free at the time which I hadn't told her and my hair did look a mess between the natural and relaxed hair. It's all done in love though because they want you to look your best.

[OakShannon]

Originally Posted by heart_string

I'll even stretch and concede that everyone does not grow up in diverse areas. But as a previous poster said, and as I stated earlier, this is the INTERNET that we're on. Look up racial slurs, look up offensive images, educate yourself & when you get called on the carpet for something that may not be correct, thank your lucky stars that you ARE on the internet - people in real life may not be so kind as to stick to harsh reprimands.

I've gotten those reprimands IRL. I remember the time I used the word "minority" in an ethnic studies class in college . . . Ouch. Not a comfortable experience.

But . . . I never used that word in the same way again. It did make me think. So that moment of discomfort served a purpose. Sometimes we don't have a clue about how much we don't know until someone points it out. It doesn't feel great, especially when we know that we didn't mean to offend anyone. But if we did - there's no point in shooting the messenger.

I think it's valid to ask someone to examine seriously - if they are not yet able to recognize an offensive term - if they are really ready to be a TRA parent. Some of us didn't grow up in diverse areas and we have a lot of learning to do first. Do you live in a diverse area now? Do you have connections to the AA community now? If not, do you have plans to move? Have you thought of ways to increase the diversity of your social circle? Are you willing - as people are suggesting - to do a lot of reading and research? Those steps should come first, before the baby comes home.

Linny - I know that sometimes people from within a group use terms that would be offensive coming from the outside. I do think there is an important distinction there, though. I'm gay and I have friends who use words that would be considered a slur coming from the outside. But they use it in a way that is playful. There is no sting. From the outside, it would be hurtful. Offensive. To use a more extreme example than "Choco Boco" (That is weird) - I frequently hear AA people in my area use the "N" word. And I know that even within the AA community, that can be controversial. But still, it would sound totally, utterly different if I said it.

I realize that that's different from the woman who was talking about your daughters' hair. She just sounds rude.

DDW, I completely agree with you about the mascots. It's disgraceful that they are still being used. I've had that argument with my sport's fanatic relatives. I'm going to remember your line about the "New York Negroes and the San Antonio Spics."

[nickchris]

Linny, maye you should find some non nasty words to say to irl people who irritate you, and get if off your chest kwim? Maybe, I can give you some examples via pm of staying classy, but still getting your point across. As a Black woman I have endured many ignorant remarks, (in personal, and at the office) yet I learned to fine tune my approach. That is the way to make it through life as a woman of color, and still be happy and such.
Yes, when it comes to our children, or parenting the subject can get touchy.
However, let's look at it this way. To me the OP and its following posts, are about White parent of Blacks kids, and being sensitive to the impact of certain names. I can vibe with you if the thread was about rude remarks made to tra parents. IMO this subject is on a different scope.

[Hunterdon]

At the risk of wading in on this thread, I was unfamiliar with the term so I took other poster's advice and looked on the internet. Here's the type of site I found: Fro-Babies: Thou Shalt Do Thy Fro Baby's 'Do

This person didn't seem to find the term offensive, so it does seem to be a term some people do and others don't. Like most terms, I choose to err on the side of caution so it is a term I certainly won't use. Having said that, it does appear to be easy to trip over terms that some find offensive.

I guess what I'm saying is we all have to do our best to be careful with our language but we also have to have some patience and help educate others who may not know or understand what influence that language may have on other people.

[nickchris]

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Who is the author of this blog, what race are they? While Blacks are not monolithic, I have yet to come across any of my peers calling our kids fro babies. The term fro is old, to begin with, and unless I am out of touch an older guy may say patting down the "fro".
In my peer group, we parents will use styles such as: 1/2/3/4 or a few ponies, tastefully arranged. Neat box braids, and simple cornbraid styles. We do not have our daughters running around with fros, or random braids all over their heads. Our son’s hair are usually cut low, natural hairline or lined up. If they have a little height tp the hair, it is patted down. So the term fro does not apply. When they are teenagers they may try a certain style, but we usually keep on them to keep it neat, and clean. Blacks have had many negative terms applied to us over time, and those of us who have sense keep within a certain category. Check out the Obama girls hair styles.

Hopefully it is okay to add this; I will remove it if it is not. Here is a link to racial slurs, that I came across, and it is comprehensive to include all races:[/font]
The Racial Slur Database