[manni28]

agree - we DO originate from the same continent. And I admire the contributions that African-Americans have made to this country. I didn't mean to sound as if I was negating those contributions. I think that the African diaspora is amazing and valuable. I am just saying that one cannot expect that there will not be some evolution in the culture after hundreds of years apart (Africans and AAs).

My point is that it does NOT matter how society sees you - that child has a rich heritage as an Ethiopian. Believe me, few Africans will start identifying themselves as AAs just because society sees them as such. If you are speaking about 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants, that's a different story, and I would agree with your assessment. I live among Africans, go to church with them, socialize with them, speak my native language when I am among them. I know my people.

Our difference is in perception - I am not concerned with how I am seen by society, and nor should this child who is adopted from Ethiopia. If her mother teaches her about who SHE is, not about who people around her think she is, then that is the most important determinant for her identity. That does not mean that she will not be influenced by people's perceptions - she may well be. But she cannot live by other people's restrictions.

As to a definition of culture - Is there lobola (brideprice) in the AA culture? Does the paternal aunt guide young AA girls about puberty? Do young AA girls go through puberty rituals? Are there beliefs in animism here, or blessings from the ancestors? Do the ancestors rise to certain levels in belief, with hierarchical standing? Is there a belief in traditional healers here, who are believed to have been filled with the spirit of an ancestor? Despite there being differences among African countries, these are a very small number of examples of what I am referring to when I speak of "culture", quite different from the universal quote "it takes a village". There ARE differences between AA and African cultures. Again, I am not saying that this is a bad thing - it just is. I challenge you (or anyone) to go to Africa and try to live amongst the people, experience the cultures for yourself (if you haven't had the opportunity as yet - you may have, I don't know). There's a reason many AAs come back and state that they never felt more American there. And there are many reasons why many, many Africans in the US feel largely alienated, even from AAs.

Don’t get me wrong, I AM AMERICAN TO THE CORE! Like I said before this country is the only country that I know; I was born here, raised here and will die here. I was stating that Africans do identify with the AA community; they’re not of European descent. They encounter the same discrimination that we (AA’s) do too. To say I’m not black, I’m Ethiopian is equal to a child saying: “I’m not black, I’m bi-racial” as IF that will make a difference on how society sees/views you.

Another point I would LOVE to drive home is, I am 250% proud of my African Ancestry and to be AA, I thank god for giving me parents that instilled that in me. I think as AA’s we are the strongest because of our past, and we have over come a lot to become bankers, lawyer, Secretary’s of State and hold other high positions in this country.

-Manni28

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by manni28

Another point I would LOVE to drive home is, I am 250% proud of my African Ancestry and to be AA, I thank god for giving me parents that instilled that in me. I think as AA’s we are the strongest because of our past, and we have over come a lot to become bankers, lawyer, Secretary’s of State and hold other high positions in this country.

-Manni28

That made me smile. You can hear it in your words, your pride. Just wanted to comment on that.

[manni28]

Thank You.

I have to say, I admire YOU for the way you‘re handling the situation with your child’s bfamily. I like the way you put your family first. Keep doing what you’re doing and it will work out.

-Manni28

[BethanyB]

Okay, I must say that as a proud mom to two GORGEOUS "full" black children, my blood is boiling right now. Totally boiling!

This has nothing to do with making individual choices or bashing anyone. You want to feel bashing? Try being the mom to two innocent young black children and hearing people talk about them as they are unworthy or not as good as a biracial child because they have no white in them. Try listening to people say they would not have adopted MY kids because they are FULL AA and they don't want to be associated with that in their neighborhood.

Maybe I'm just a bit sick of being told I'm not appreciating others choices as I'm reading such insults and racism.

I just really don't get it. You are okay with a child being biracial because you think people will look at your child and KNOW your child is not totally black? That makes no sense. What if your child comes out looking black with course hair and dark skin? It happens! Or let's say you get your wish and your child comes out with gorgeous curls and grey eyes and light skin but has all the black features of a black person. Do you really think that racist people are going to put aside their feelings because your child is lighter.

Even those who say they want their child to share a piece of them and be part white. Who is going to know that if your child does not look part white??? So your child will look black but you will feel better because they are not totally black? Ahhh.

I honestly feel that adoption agencies should NOT let a couple/individual adopt a biracial child unless they are open to full AA as well. It is not fair to the kids.

Everyone wants to talk about how we should respect how the parents feel in "their" decision but what about the children? They are the ones that WILL feel it. They will feel it from society and they WILL feel it from their parents. I find it sad.

My son was born with blue eyes and curly silky hair. He was SO fair that he looked white. None of this changed until over a YEAR later. Now my son is quite brown. Very dark in the summer and his eyes have turned to hazel/honey colored. His hair is course and he is the most beautiful boy in the world. We know his mom is black and have no idea what race his father is but he was considered full AA.

Now take my cousin, who is black/white biracial. He is super dark with brown eyes. He brother is also black/white biracial and he has light skin, and blonde silky hair and blue eyes. The boys both have black fathers and a biracial mom but are SO different.
I so wish I could post a pic of them.

What do you do when you bring home that little biracial baby and he starts getting dark. What happens when he looks like a full AA child? Do you give him back? Do you resent him? Are you embarrassed of him?

THIS is what scares me and hurts me. It hurts me that there are people who believe that light skin and "white features" makes their child more acceptable in their life.

What hurts and surprises me even more is that there are people out there who say it openly on a forum and expect no one to have a problem with it.

Well, my kids are just as gorgeous and wonderful as anyone elses and stuff like this just kills me. It kills me for them and the world they have to live in.

[Vogi2002]

AAAAAAAMEN Bethany. I could not have said it better myself!!!

[loveajax]

Bethany, I really don't care what you think of me, my family, our choices, etc. But I DO take offense at your saying what is "fair" for my DD or what my DD WILL feel from us (what is that, exactly?). I think those kinds of statements are really uncalled for.

My daughter's birth parents got to CHOOSE who they wanted to parent their daughter. They chose us. They have confidence that we can raise their child, even though she is black and we are not. We got to know them fairly well before she was born, and I don't think they would have placed her with us if they thought we weren't prepared to parent her.

As I mentioned before, we all are raising black children who all are going to face hurdles that white children do not. Does the fact that DH and I chose to adopt a biracial child makes us "less prepared" to help DD face those hurdles....I don't know, I don't see it.

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by loveajax

As I mentioned before, we all are raising black children who all are going to face hurdles that white children do not. Does the fact that DH and I chose to adopt a biracial child makes us "less prepared" to help DD face those hurdles....I don't know, I don't see it.

Love - I think the thing is For ME, you chose for reasons that I think are not racist reasons (from what you have told me). You felt a pull for this certain ethnicity, and you went with it...

What we are taking offense to is those that are doing so for (self proclaimed) racist reasons. I think even a small amount of racism to prevent you from accepting a full AA child is too much. I think it IS offensive to think that even though you have these racist thoughts of a full AA child, you don't think it will matter if the child is BR. THAT is wrong. SO wrong and SO offensive. SO offensive because OUR CHILDREN are what those racist thoughts are about...and it's SO degrading to think that someone thinks less of him because he is "less white" YECH.

YOU don't sound this way to me. But if you read back...I think you will get a better idea of what we are taking offense to.

[loveajax]

I understand that, Natalie. But Bethany's point was broader than that and the "fair" comment and the what these children WILL feel from their parents and how sad that is would be directed to me as well and I find it offensive because I guess it implies that my DD is "doomed" to a life of sadness (and that's frankly ridiculous and judgmental...I'm just glad we don't face that kind of stuff IRL). I'm sorry.

[manni28]

BethanyB:

I think you're right on the money

Lovejax:

As a "pure blooded" AA I think you have your head in the sand. Black is black. We come in a wide variety colors, hair textures and features, we are unique people. BUT just because some of us are lighter doesn't mean the Euro-American accept us as part of them. I want to tell you joke, it’s offense but I think it shows how SOME people can be:

There were two guys one AA the other bi-racial, who when the a store. The AA went first and was ignored by the shop owner, ands left the store. When he when back outside the bi-racial guy asked him what happen? The AA said "maybe he doesn't serve/like AA's." The bi-racial man laughed and went inside. He too got the cold shoulder and said: "I'm not black! I'm bi-racial!" The shop owner looked him straight in the eye and said:

"I didn't ask you what kind of "N" you are;I don't serve your kind here"

Do you see what others are trying to tell you? Granted, not all people are like this, but it is what it is.

Also, I'd like to know what is wrong with being "pure" AA? I was ALWAYS taught to be proud of my African ancestry. Maybe you haven't socialized with educated or affluent AA's but we a FAR from what you see on TV.

[loveajax]

manni...i think i said i am raising a black child as well...i don't see where i said that there was something ''wrong'' with being ''pure'' aa....please don't put words in my mouth.

almost all of my friends...black and white...are professionals and fairly affluent. im not sure what that has to do with anything though to tell you the truth, except now i am both classist as well as racist, i guess.

[manni28]

Originally Posted by loveajax

manni...i think i said i am raising a black child as well...i don't see where i said that there was something ''wrong'' with being ''pure'' aa....please don't put words in my mouth.

almost all of my friends...black and white...are professionals and fairly affluent. im not sure what that has to do with anything though to tell you the truth, except now i am both classist as well as racist, i guess.

No, I didn't say you were a racist-I just thought you thought being "Pure blooded" AA was "less than". That society will see your child as "different or more accepted", which isn't the case the majority of the time-did you read the "joke" I wrote?

[loveajax]

i absolutely vehemently do not believe that...if anything, i worry about dd feeling ''less than'' since she is not ''pure'' black or white....i get the joke, and i know she will face the same $+@& ; though of course i wish she wouldn't have to (or anyone have to).

[sbaglio]

I agree with all your points wholeheartedly, loveajax, but the prevailing opinion appears to be otherwise.

[loveajax]

thank you, sbaglio...when things ''hit at'' either my parenting or my dd, i tend to get a little kooky, so i am glad you understood me!! i appreciate it.

[KarynB]

Love ajax - I really don't think most of these comments were being directed at you to be honest. It seems as though you choose to be the parents of a biracial child for reasons other than what we (me) are taking offense to. You have thought it out, see your daughter as being part of the black community - you've done your homework.

But Bethany - I think your comments were right on the money. I also agree that it feels sometimes on these boards if we disagree with someone's comments (even if they are RACIST) then we aren't supporting them. Well, I don't support racism period - I don't care if you are an adoptive parent. And IMO saying you are "open" to BR but not AA due to prejudices is beyond ridiculous.

My boys are not AA - they are AFRICAN. Full African, beautiful black baby boys. They live in Canada, they are taught Canadian customs and holidays but they will always know where they came from, and maybe will even choose to return there one day. Which we will support, Africa is a beautiful place and they are lucky to call it their second home.

Manni - thanks for sharing that joke and maybe opening a few eyes? My oldest son has been called a "n" twice in school so far - it almost killed me but he has handled with grace - saying it is just a word and so it can't hurt him. Maybe when he is older it will do more damage - I don't know. For now, all I can do is continue to teach him to be proud to be an African, to show him the amazing things Africans do everyday, the beautiful art, music and heritage he is a part of, and will contribute to one day.