[dpen]

I was reading one of the threads from the , I think it was the older child adoption site and I was amazed at the problems these parents had with thier children. I am totally aware that is some not all and that many older adoptions go well. But I was struck by the love these parents have for the children and the lengths they will go to help them.

I also could't help but think of those poor kids and if they would have had a better life if they had been adopted at birth and not have been so wounded staying with biofamilies(my assumption), It truly puts into perspective my situation and how thankful i am for being adopted at the age of 2. There are definate and real situations that adoption really is in the best interest of the child.

Its so sad,how children and the elderly are not valued by this society. Donna

Perhaps some of the problems stem from the fact that older children sometimes languish in foster care or state-run institutions for years. Possibly it's a mistake (in some cases) to lay the blame on the biofamily. Of course, if it is their fault...then it is their fault. I think people who adopt older and difficult- to- place children are courageous and wonderful. They have my utmost respect. -ivy

[ladyjubilee]

Dpen,

You mentioned in another post that you'd been in foster care for sometime....do you know if your parents did anything "special" that helped you once you came home?

[dpen]

Yes jubilee, I was in foster care for about th first 2 years of my life. What happend was that I got adopted before any severe problems set in. I think all my parents did was parent me and give me the love and security that had not been given to me earlier.

I do not want to knock fostering at all, I know my older a brother was in his foster family sincehe was 4 years old and had devolped a bond with them. He had to be phyically removed from foster moms arms. I don't know why he wasn't allowed to stay there, but it must have caused some lasting problems. He doesn't talk about it much. He didn't give my parents too much trouble, and he is a good galoob!! Donna

[Tigger]

Actually dpen and Ivy, you are both right. Children abused in their biohomes go into the foster care system. Sadly, the system is not perfect and there are children taken from mothers that their only mistake was being young and poor. But there are many children taken out of abusive and neglectful homes, which is a good thing. Then they all get put into foster care, and too often that makes the problems worse. There are many abusive and neglectful foster homes out there too. And even if the kids are lucky and get a good foster home they recieve damage from being bounced back and forth from their bio home to foster home and from foster home to foster home. I've seen too many kids bounced around for years. Kids that had relatively few issues when they first came into care have huge issues after years of going round and round with the system. There has been some recent improvements (in Michigan anyway) of the system, but there is much more that needs done. We are very fortunate in that we adopted our two daughters from the foster care system and one has no emotional issues from her experience (she was too young), and the other has very few issues. The basic things are 1) stop removing children needlessly. Poor does not equal neglectful or a bad life. and 2) If you have proof the bio parents were abusive then terminate rights much much sooner to save the kids the grief of bouncing around. Sorry to jump on your thread, but this is a subject very near and dear to me.

Larry, I just visited your site and read your story. What an inspiration you are. Thank you for sharing it. -ivy

[dadfor2]

hey larry,

i went to your website, just for curosity, because someone commented on it.....its was a wonderful story. You truly are an inspiration.....
But why so much on the gay issue, you dont need anyones approval anymore......you dont need to warn anyone.

basically, just tell the story, the hell with people who have issues, its your story and your life. Sorry about that, when i was reading i felt this was this disclaimer.....you dont need it...

basically, just wanted to say i was deeply moved, and i hope my sons turn out as wonderful as you.

all my best and god bless

dadfor2

[debsdone]

A post from Tigger states that some kids are in the foster care system simply because their family was "poor". I once read a list of things that will allow a child to be removed from a home, I believe it was posted by Ray buffer. It was only one state, but it didn't list being "poor" as something that would be a reason. I do not understand how or why this could happen, and I have never known anyone who's children were removed. I would like to know exactly how this happens, if I may. Thanks, debi

[dadfor2]

good point debi,

i never heard of any child being removed due to being poor, actually, in our state, finicail stability is never asked when your adopting either.....

from my understanding, a child is removed due to neglect as well as other things, and in most cases, the agency does everything they can to try to keep the bio familys together.

but i always wondered that too when reading some of these posts.

dadfor2

[mckenna]

i agree, my foster son was removed for neglect and then his bmom had another baby and has maintained custody even though she is homeless and what many would consider "poor" and also has a child in state custody. i do feel that many who have little resources and are "poor" often find themselves neglectful or abuse due to lack of support, and/or lack of parenting skills and have their children removed and placed in foster care, but just being poor is not grounds for removal of children.

[Jensboys]

Well I can only tell you the story of our boys (but I know many similar ones). I do think that where poverty comes in is the lack of resources that stressed out/inadequate parents can access or are aware of being able to access. I also think that it is a cycle - in our boys case, their bmom was also in and out of foster care her whole life and had and lost her first child at 14. Our boys were born when she was 18 and 19 with an inconsiderate spouse, also coming from a cycle of abuse. Please know that I share these details with the upmost respect for our sons birthmom, knowing that she loved them dearly just was unable or incapable of parenting ANY child at that time of her life. I know not that I would of been a better parent than her given the same circumstances and lack of family support she faced.

Our boys were taken in for abuse after a call to a hotline from their birthgrandma. It was found that the four month old had a broken rib and numerous bruises and burns. The 18 month old had been burnt and had whip marks across his back and face. (she was under enormous stress, baby was sick and screamed for hours, older baby wouldnt sleep, her boyfriend was out cheating on her and dealing drugs and she (and this is in her words) "just needed them to sleep!". She lost it (and probably not for the first time). I know I have been there - but with a great family/husband, lots of education and wonderful examples in my own family I KNOW to walk away. She didnt have that resource.

The boys were placed in foster care. For the next three years their bmom attempted to reunite. However she seemed incapable, for whatever emotional reasons, to complete the required steps. She was unable to separate herself form her boyfriend (at the time it was assumed he was the abuser), she missed many arranged visits with the boys and eventually stopped even calling or trying. She did contest her termination of parental rights, but in court refused to speak. Her rights were terminated in May 99, the boys were adopted in September of that year by us.

We found and initiated contact with her in November of that year and have had an open adoption with her up until she had a baby again last may. As it turns out, the baby's father is also our boys birthfather. For whatever reason (I dont even begin to try to understand) she has found contact to be too difficult for her now and although we continue to send pictures and letters, she does not respond. We hope and pray that the resources that were denied for our boys are there for their sister to spare her the agonizing journey of abuse - foster care and finally adoption. We are very VERY VERY VERY blessed and thrilled to be our sons parents, however because I love them so much, if there would of been some way to spare them the pain of abuse and neglect, combined with 3 years of foster care, of course we would of.

Now for another thought - somedays I do wonder if only their bmom would of realized her inadequacies in parenting BEFORE abusing the boys and would of made an adoption plan at their birth - how much better off would they be? Of course I wouldnt be their mom, but they would of been spared SO MUCH. So from the other side of things, I am very wary when I hear of people trying to "talk out" an expectant mom from making an adoption plan - especially if she thinks that maybe she wouldnt be the type of mom every child needs. Just a thought.....

[jjjetplane2]

Not in all cases, but in my opinion MANY have to due with drug and alcohol abuse. If science could create a vaccine to make people immune to the effects of alcohol & drugs, I think there would be far fewer kids in the system.

I have only taken in 2 foster children. Both parents had drug and alcohol issues. Which in turn led to abuse, extreme poverty.

I feel the system gives far to many chances to these parents.
I talked to a foster dad recently in tears. He had 2 kids for 2 years, they were taken for abuse and returned to bio mom. Came back to him 7 months later, covered in bruises and one had 7 cig burns. Social serivces first plan of action... set 'conditions for return' or treatments etc. this parent must go through to get the children back. He was yelling how many times are you going to allow these children to be tortured? When is enough enough?


Maybe when SS needs to move a child, they should go into a residential treatment type place keeping the family together while they work the 'program'. I also agree in many cases it is a cycle of abuse/addiction that need to be ended. Many who end up with kids in the system, were in the system of abused themselves.

County is already planning our 3 yr old foster daughers return. We are her 7th home in her 3 yrs. She has been taken away twice from bio mom, once for felony child abuse, second neglect. (had to leave her to go to bar)

Sometimes reading these boards... all the hoopla and fantasy of these wonderfully loving biological mothers (some I know are). My 3 yr old foster daugther was whipped with a belt, kicked in the face, and not fed. Oh, these 'always loving' bio Moms. Both of these kids were also born cocaine positive. How loving.