[Amilynn22]

So....I joined this chat last night that was called "Adoption Healing". BIG MISTAKE. I didn't realize that is was controlled by a man who believes that adoption is inhumane and that EVERY adoptee is tortured and in need of healing from their loss. They proceeded to tell me that as an adoptive mom (which they found "extremely sad") that I absolutely could not be a good mom to my daughter unless I dealt with my own "issues"with being adopted myself. I told them that I do not have any issues and they said that that was impossible. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH! I didn't even bother to argue because of their level of radicalism.

I wanted to scream at them....I AM BLESSED TO BE ADOPTED and SO IS MY DAUGHTER!! It's sad that they don't understand that although some adoptees feel a sense of sadness and loss, that there can also be JOY and HAPPINESS with it as well. It is not an all or nothing thing. I have always felt bad for my bmom because I know that it had to be very painful to place me and I would never want anyone to hurt over me. But I don't feel like I "lost" anything.

It made me angry because they said that my daughter will grow up thinking "what's wrong with me?" and "why was I abandoned" and that she would always question and feel sad that she wasn't raised by her "first mom". I was raised in a closed adoption and have NEVER felt that way....my daughter is through an open adoption so I highly doubt that she will question what is already answered for her.

I don't know why but that attitude that adoption is ALWAYS traumatic and inhumane makes me SOOOO angry. Ok....just had to get that out!

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by Amilynn22

So....I joined this chat last night that was called "Adoption Healing". BIG MISTAKE. I didn't realize that is was controlled by a man who believes that adoption is inhumane and that EVERY adoptee is tortured and in need of healing from their loss. They proceeded to tell me that as an adoptive mom (which they found "extremely sad") that I absolutely could not be a good mom to my daughter unless I dealt with my own "issues"with being adopted myself. I told them that I do not have any issues and they said that that was impossible. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH! I didn't even bother to argue because of their level of radicalism.

I wanted to scream at them....I AM BLESSED TO BE ADOPTED and SO IS MY DAUGHTER!! It's sad that they don't understand that although some adoptees feel a sense of sadness and loss, that there can also be JOY and HAPPINESS with it as well. It is not an all or nothing thing. I have always felt bad for my bmom because I know that it had to be very painful to place me and I would never want anyone to hurt over me. But I don't feel like I "lost" anything.

It made me angry because they said that my daughter will grow up thinking "what's wrong with me?" and "why was I abandoned" and that she would always question and feel sad that she wasn't raised by her "first mom". I was raised in a closed adoption and have NEVER felt that way....my daughter is through an open adoption so I highly doubt that she will question what is already answered for her.

I don't know why but that attitude that adoption is ALWAYS traumatic and inhumane makes me SOOOO angry. Ok....just had to get that out!

You know, itstheexreme atitudes the ruin it for the rest of us that are more reasonable. They rant and rave about the inhumaity when in fact there are many situations that it is more humane to be adopted then not.....abuse of any kind. On the other hand, the attiude had progressed to be that many beleived itwas no big deal for bmoms or adoptees...it is a big deal. I really in my heart of hearts beleive that adoption should be the choice of last resort and its the bmom that should be able to make that desion without coerician and the adoptee needs to be respected on what ever they feel about "their" birth and adoption.

Its when others come in and pontificate on how it should be regarding MY adoption, how I should think, how I should live ectr....it becomes less credibule.

[julie23]

You know, itstheexreme atitudes the ruin it for the rest of us that are more reasonable

i have found that the extreme attitudes from either side seem to be the most common....

either extreme that adoption is inhumane and intolerable...

or the other way.... adoption is fantastic and wonderful...

and both extremes come with fairly closed minds that refuse to allow for a difference of opinion or experience.

the adoptee needs to be respected on what ever they feel about "their" birth and adoption.

i think of adoption as a journey.... with unexpected twists and turns.... no matter which part of the triad one comes from....

it is small minded to assume that all people are at the same place in the journey... or even that the journey takes all people to the same destination....

each individuals journey is as unique as that person.... perhaps with common threads to others... perhaps not...

and each individual deserves respect to be right where they are..... and go right where they are going.....

[dpen6]

Julie,
I so agree we are all at different places and all of us in the triad and even beyond the triad are deserving of respect and understanding.

I so agree that the extremes tend to muck up an issue as opposed to helping it...heck we see that in the political arena all the time!

But, not be be nauseatingly repetitive...there is one area in adoption that the adoptee is unique and that is in the information we don't have, the sealed records and OBC. For us to get it the most basic of information we have to beg"Please sir, just a peek" We have facets of the triad, family and genral society telling us how and why we should or should not need it....how we should or should not feel a certian way as if we are unable to know what is right or wrong....no matter how successful, no matter how "stable" we may appear to be there is SOMEONE saying she don't need to know! thats where we stand out....and its fustrating.

As far asthe rest of it...yes...its a journey and we are all at differnt places and we all need to understand that.

How is every thing going for you and how is that precious little daughter of yours?

[KittyMay]

Radicals seem to ruin everything, not just adoption. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of middle ground in many areas nowadays. There is extremism in almost every subject you can think of. I would not have stayed and even gave them a platform or allowed them to "rent space in your head" so to speak... Emotions about adoption can run pretty heavy. For instance, I'm not a fan of adoption, but I'm eternally grateful I was adopted, I wouldn't trade my parents for anything, yet I'm having a relationship with my bmom. It can get pretty convoluted at times, but I make up my own mind about it. I don't pay any mind to the so-called "experts" who say I should feel this, or do this, etc. I also make sure I listen to other points of view from all sides of the triad, and respect that other's are entitled to those points of view, and may have some valuable insight to share. The ability to grow and learn from that rather than being solely influenced to someone elses thinking is like walking a fine line. You have to be strong enough to separate the two.

[julie23]

.there is one area in adoption that the adoptee is unique and that is in the information we don't have, the sealed records and OBC. For us to get it the most basic of information we have to beg"Please sir, just a peek" We have facets of the triad, family and genral society telling us how and why we should or should not need it....how we should or should not feel a certian way as if we are unable to know what is right or wrong....no matter how successful, no matter how "stable" we may appear to be there is SOMEONE saying she don't need to know! thats where we stand out....and its fustrating.

while i have been both birth mother and adoptive mother.... i was raised in my bio family and do not have same life experience as an individual that was adopted...

but thanks to people like you, who are willing to keep putting it out there.... i am better able to understand.

yes... for some reason, people in our culture feel very comfortable telling the adopted individual how they should feel.... or think.... or behave... and if the adopted person acts outside of that box, they are often attacked... declared unstable.... emotionally unwell... ungrateful.... in denial.... etc. etc. etc.

when i read these forums, i often think that the adopted individual just can't win.... they get beat up if they are happy and at peace with their adoption.... and they get beat up if they are struggling and unhappy with their adoption....

How is every thing going for you and how is that precious little daughter of yours?

aww... thanks for asking!! we simply adore her!! she is almost 1.5 and as cute as a speckled pup.... she is full of personality.... and a busy little bee.... since she is most likely my last baby, i spoil her... and know i will probly pay dearly for that some day.... but we all spoil her... it's almost impossible not to....

the older three are all doing great.... it's been interesting having a 19yo and a 1 yo... to watch the similarities (in a metaphorical way) between them as one discovers adulthood... and the other discovers toddlerhood....

i have been super busy being grateful for how wonderful everything is in my family right now... we have had so many years of crisis and tragedy, that i am enjoying each trauma free day....

[hpfreak080]

Originally Posted by julie23

when i read these forums, i often think that the adopted individual just can't win.... they get beat up if they are happy and at peace with their adoption.... and they get beat up if they are struggling and unhappy with their adoption....

I found that was true too when i began looking at adoption websites. Currently, I'm society's ideal adoptee (for the most part LOL) and then i go on other websites and tell my opinion and get told by other adoptees that I'm "in denial" and "in a fog" and that i "just don't get it."

It just makes me angry because I am an adoptee just like they are...aren't we supposed to be on the same team here? I just get so frustrated when people don't respect that different people have different perspectives.

[BethVA62]

Everyone is different
everyones situation is different, while many may be similar, they are still different
And everyone deals with emotional stuff differently

For me I have learned to see my separation from bio family as a different "event" than my adoption. I lumped them both together under the word adoption for a long time. No wonder it was confusing.

So now it is very odd to me to hear from some adoptees that they are blessed, happy, grateful to be separated from their biofamily that they have never known. I mean if you know them, or know of them as horrible people with certainty, sure, who wouldn't be happy not to be around them anymore, but I can only imagine there would still be trauma and sadness for that situation

I really can't imagine when mother and child of any age are separated, for what ever reason, that it isn't traumatic for them both in differing degrees depending on each situation.

I also believe that an adoptee exploring issues they may have at certain times during their life, while being free to discuss their feelings about separation and adoption, can only help them deal and heal with anything that may be causing difficulties for them. i think it's only healthy to give it a shot, if that is what you feel like doing.

I'm guessing the Adoption Healing chat is the one run by Joe Soll?
if so, I would recommend Joe to anyone dealing with the pain and loss and other hurtful and/or confusing feelings that can come with separation of their bio families and being adopted. He and many of the members at Adoptese helped me for many years to understand things like no one else. I am and will always be grateful to him.

And yes, sometimes people in that type of discussioin group can be very extreme, but many of their situations have been extreme. And some are in the middle of learning about themselves and their own situations. We learn and grow, at least that has been my mission LOL

But while we are learning and growing there are often stages to conquer, and that is with everything in life, not just adoption. We are all in different stages, once in a while we will run across someone in the same stage trying to figure it all out. It's always helpful when you can explore it with a friend that understands where you are, and you don't have to explain everything, or argue it, they just get it.

I'm curious tho LOL can't help but ask, and not trying to being mean or smart or anything... but why would someone with no issues or feelings of nothing but blessings, happiness and gratitude enter a chat called "Adoption Healing"? What's to heal?

I guess I would be curious as to what they were talking about if I felt that way?
i still don't get it tho

When i was having difficulties dealing with some of the feelings and thoughts about my own life, got online and I saw "Adoption Healing" I clicked as fast as I could, I was like "Oh thank god, what a blessing this place is, finally someone who understands and gives validation and acknowledgement of it all, finally something that might help, makes sense to me, it's a friggin miracle. Finally somewhere to express and discuss my anger, feelings of loss and heartache, sheer curiosity, questions of reunion and all that goes with that - without being told i was an ungrateful bastard"

Point agreed that everyone is differnt, not all of us feel pain at loosing our families, not all of us feel happiness and blessings about the adopted family we got. Not all of us are able to discuss it openly with out being defensive... not all of us want to discuss it, not all of us want to stay stuck in discussing the same thing over and over and over and on and on... sorry repetitive rambling

LOL HP, I and many others think I am societys' ideal adoptee <snickering>
It's all in who you ask I suppose
I'm teasing ok, seriously don't take me wrong please, teammates get to do that right? tease in a nice way?
I really do believe I'm an ideal adoptee tho, not teasing about that lol

[BethVA62]

[quote=Amilynn22]

It made me angry because they said that my daughter will grow up thinking "what's wrong with me?" and "why was I abandoned" and that she would always question and feel sad that she wasn't raised by her "first mom".QUOTE]

Amilynn, I understand your annoyance
must be similar to mine when radical people tell me i should be grateful and happy and blessed and have lost nothing
I don't think there is a one thing fits all, and it's not all or nothing or either or.

I guess the only reason I am saying anything is
Mom to Mom
What if your daughter does have the above quoted thoughts and feelings some day?

After all we are not all the same.

It could be wise, like many of the other amoms on this board to be prepared for that stuff that I hope and pray never becomes an issue for either of you to deal with.

[hpfreak080]

Originally Posted by BethVA62

LOL HP, I and many others think I am societys' ideal adoptee <snickering>
It's all in who you ask I suppose
I'm teasing ok, seriously don't take me wrong please, teammates get to do that right? tease in a nice way?
I really do believe I'm an ideal adoptee tho, not teasing about that lol

lol no worries beth, i'm not that sensitive.
in fact, i like being teased (nicely of course LOL) sometimes...gives me a chance to laugh at myself and not take myself so seriously...always good

I don't necessarily think I'm "ideal"...i'm just me =) LOL

[Amilynn22]

Quote from BethVA62: So now it is very odd to me to hear from some adoptees that they are blessed, happy, grateful to be separated from their biofamily that they have never known.


It's not that I'm grateful to be seperated from a family I have never known, it's that I'm grateful that I have the parents I have and that I wouldn't change my life for anything! I have never felt a sense of loss. What I do feel is sadness that there is someone out there hurting over me. I have all of my bmom's contact info but have never made contact because there has never been a "need" to. I have thought about it because maybe I could give her some peace that I know she did the right thing even though it was probably very painful.

My daughter is through open adoption and I think about it everyday that it might one day be a source of pain for her. That is why I maintain a close relationship with her bmom because I know it will be very important in the future. I don't feel that my "separation" was traumatic for me although I'm sure it was for my bmom.

As for why I went into the adoption healing chatroom....well first, I've been trying to explore all aspects/attitudes of adoption since my daughter may not feel the same as me and second, it didn't occur to me that it would be so radical. This exploration of mine has shown me a whole other side of adoption I was never really aware of. All the adoptee's I know have generally healthy and positive attitudes regarding their adoptions and choose to focus on what they gained and not what other people think they lost. I, as well as most of my adoptee friends, are Christians and believe that this was all a part of God's plan for our lives and that we are right where we are supposed to be. Some might say we are in denial, but I whole-heartedly disagree!

I do feel badly for those adoptee's who have feelings of loss and separation and my heart definitely goes out to all the bmom's out there (including mine and my daughter's) who made the painful and selfless decision to place their children.

The whole reason for my original post was to really vent my frustrations that the extremists on either side do not acknowledge that it is ok for adoptee's to be very happy that they were placed because they love their families so much, while at the same time feeling sadness that it came at their bparent's expense. That doesn't mean that we feel a loss, just sadness that all parties couldn't be winners. Just some thoughts....

[BethVA62]

The preface: I'm grateful beyond words that I have my adopted family in my life, they have been good to me. I just happen to be visiting them right now, and am so happy to see them and be with them. I wish I could stop time and keep them with me forever. I wouldn't change it either, but I really didn't have that choice.

But that really has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings of great loss of my entire biological family for the first 40 years of my life.

Are you able to separate it, cause yer still mixing it up together there kwim?

I'm glad you are thinking ahead for your daughter. it only makes good sense. And reading around here and there, that's a good thing, yay

And I really don't believe that adoptees that feel no consious loss of family are "in denial"

And I hate it when adoptees accuse each other of things like that and the opposite.

I think it is a choice we can make, we choose to look at the sunny side of things. Whether it's a christian thing or not. We choose to see it as a loss for others, but not for ourselves. We have empathy and forgiveness for them. We choose to not let it bother us.

it's up to each individual to make that choice for themselves.

With all of the pre and post natal studies we have today that prove that it is traumatic to mother and child when separated, and then hearing that loosing a mother isn't a loss for every human , I'm just not sure what to think or say to that.... i know you hate it, but can you see why some cry and point denial denial, head in sand, swim in denile and you get bit by de crocodile ?

Not to mention many see comments like that as supporting the blank slate theory they despise so. You know, it doesn't matter, just take the baby. And many see it as supporting sealed/closed or unequal access to birth records which continues to separate them from their families.
it always comes down to politics and laws

[RavenSong]

I'm surprised that Joe even let you sign up for the nightly chat. He used to have a strict policy of approving only adopted persons and first parents.

There are websites out there that are suitable for everyone. If Joe's site isn't your cup of tea, just move on. You're not going to change their minds....

[BethVA62]

oh i forgot
not all mothers that have lost children to adoption chose it or made that selfless decision

my mother had no choice at all.
And I'd bet my last dollar that the mothers at the adoption healing chat had no choice either.
I dare ya to go ask them LOL
And many of the adoptees there have mothers that had no choice as well.

And most adoptees had no choice either.

Does that help any on where they might be coming from?
Does it really sound so extreme to have those feelings they shared?

[Amilynn22]

Ravensong: I am adopted...that's why he let me join. And I only lasted 5 mintues...hightailed it when I realized what was going on. I definitely didn't argue with them, just politely said it wasn't for me but thanks anyway.

BethVA62: I do not negate the fact that many women did not have a choice in the adoptions of their children and it is a shame. No one should ever be forced to do that. I also know that some adoptee's feel like they didn't have a choice and it certainly makes sense. But I have found in my own life that the decisions my parents (and bparents) made for when I was young usually turned out for the best so yes...I'm grateful.

I don't feel the need to separate my bfamily from my family or my "separation"...it is what is it. My bmom's choice (at least I hope it was) made me who I am today...and I like who I am! This may bother some people but my view of my adoption has always been relatively simple. To me, it has never been more than...I have blonde hair, blue eyes, and I'm adopted. It was always others who made the big deal out of it and I never understood why.

My parents never took our adoptions so lightly to just think...whatever take the baby. My mom and dad spoke of our bparents (though they don't know them) with respect and admiration. My mom has always told me that she felt bad that her happiness came at someone else's expense.....funny how things came full circle. I feel the same way when I think of my daughter's bmom.

I hope more than anything that my bmom was not forced but instead made the decision out of love for me...the same as my daughter's bmom did. She was not coerced or forced...in fact, everyone in her world was against it. She did what she thought was best for my daughter regardlesss of what others thought...that takes incredible strength and courage beyond what I could ever understand.

This is going to sound bad but even if my bmom was forced(which based on the info I have, she wasn't), I would still not regret my placement with my family. Sure...I would feel horrible that she had to go through that and probably still is going through, but I still would not change my life.

Like I said before, I wish that adoption was a win-win situation for all involved but as it is someone or multiple people lose. As is in most hard situations in life...someone has to suffer. I guess that's just life.