[cetalley]

For so many reasons, but feel it is time, if I ever wish to make an informed decision. I have chosen "ADULT ADOPTEES', because I feel that this is whom I need opinions from. Some of you may know my journey, and those who do not, may go to my journal, to get a Glimpse, posting on March 25th, will sum it up in short version. I recieved a call from Diane my C.I./P.I., and even though I have dismissed her from searching any further, she told me some very troubling things. I have a calm, in finding out a few months back that they were adopted together, alive, healthy seemingly happy, good educations, girlfriends the whole 9 yards. So in knowing that, I decide to end my search, for this is what I needed to KNOW! I NEVER knew before this, and shed a few tears(to put it lightly), and decided that I had no RIGHT to intrude into their lives, and just allow them to be happy. I have read from many of you that you wished no reunion, or how horribly wrong reunion had gone...this I did not feel a need to place upon them. The issue that is haunting me is this; If you were 23 yr old twin boys, whom were seemingly happy, would you ever want to know that your parents bought you illegally? Would you want to know your firstmom had searched then stopped? Would you want to know the whole adoption was not legal, and that your parents knew this and indeed aided in the cover-up? For , I have always been an honest parent to my son, whom is 51/2 yrs older than they are. I ALWAYS answered any of his questions with the utmost honesty. I would never be able to meet them, or correspond with them, knowing they wanted answers, and keep this from them. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I mean no disrespect, but would love to know...what would YOU want? Diane , allowed this info, for the reason, she is going in front of a panel of judges, to open this file, that was also covered up with political clout and alot of money. She feels this will help others to come and may need me to appear in front of this panel. I have told her I would think about this, but expressed to her I will not sue, and I will not allow these young men to be given this info. I told her I would contact her soon. Am I doing the right thing by staying out of it, or would you be hurt yet another time, to find out I had once again abandoned them(so to speak)? Thank You so much...C.J.

[txrnr]

I'm older than your sons, but I would not want to know the illegal adoption part. At this point, they are raised and I can't think of anything postitive that would come from it. They may come upon the information on their own at some point, but this is their parents doing. You are not to blame for any of this.

I am one who has chosen not to search, much for the same reason as you. I don't want to intrude, or drag up issues from her past. I know who my maternal family is, and where. If she ever looks, I'll be happy to meet. I guess that was my long way of saying I'd be happy to know I was searched for.

[bakerjw]

That is a tough spot to be in for sure. Do you know if they even know that they were adopted?

I had wonderful aparents and always knew that I had ben adopted. But... My a mom would get easily flustered whenever I asked questions about it. She never outright painted my bmom as a bad person per se but some insinuations were there. Of course all I ever heard was the one side of the story. I never got to hear the other. To me that is not fair.

That is what sucks about the whole adoption process. The adoptees are the ones who get manipulated by the system and invariably get caught in the middle. I really do give a darn about what my birth mother did right or did wrong. That was in the past and none of us can change the past but it is nice to know about and try to understand the past. There may be harsh and hurtful things to learn, but I'd rather know than bury my head in the sand and ignore it.

Your sons are still in their 20's and probably not even concerned about their past or their adoption. If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure that I had a visible presence on the web and would be easy to find should they ever start looking. If they would make contact I would be honest about everything that they asked. You might be able to allude to the events without coming out and stating them outright.

Best wishes always.

[cetalley]

Thank you both, you have given a much intelligent, insight into your worlds, and your journey. I never wish to further hurt them, and regardless of their seemingly illegal ways they came about being my sons parents...the fact is they gave them all, that they deserved, and i refuse to allow them to gainthis knowledge and be hurt by their parents choices and ways...for they were obviously loved and more than likely will always be..so for this I am thankful to them. I am so so hurt to learn of their involvement with Seymore Kurtz, the man behind baby selling, but will never feel this could help "our" twins IN ANYWAY! I have done ALL the hurt these boys, never needed, and wish to do no more. The decision I must make is, to change these existing laws, I may need to appear in front of these judges,with my journey, and divulge all that I was put through. This would not bother me...wouldn't be easy, but by trying to stop this from happenening ever again to future young mothers...it could be where the twins parents may be asked to appear,.....therefore involving the twins! If I try to help...I may hurt those young men...yet once again! Thanks for any and all advice! Blessings...C.J.

[Dickons]

Secrets and lies...the two most devasting issues to an adoptee.

Keep a presense on the web for them to find, it may be years as they are 23 year old boys...but when and if they are ready they will find you. Always keep your contact info current.

Do go to court for the simple reason that bad things should never be allowed to continue or to happen again.

And if you ever meet in person and are asked the tough questions, temper your answer with compassion as they are your sons parents and it is a fine line to walk.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[cetalley]

Dickons, I do so value your wise advice, and opinions...so thank you. I just do not want the boys to find out of their parents involvement, and cover-up. I , by the way hold no anger with their parents, for how can I...I am a Mom that wanted only to love them, and since that was not allowed it has given me relief to know, they have had a Mom and Dad, whom has given them that love...regardless of how this was achieved. I t would serve no purpose for me to harbor hatred, anger, and hostility to their parents...none! I by going into this battle with the judges, feel this will give way to their finding out about Seymour Kurtz, and their parents ways of obtaining them! I do not want them to hurt! I do however, feel so hurt by this man, whom is now retired, sitting on a hill, in his mansion...after causing so many innocent children devastating heartache...let alone mother whom wanted nothing more than to work out a payment plan , and keep their babies they fell in love with! I am so torn......

[UnconventionalMom]

Another thought, there's a chance that finding out they were adopted illegally would not hurt them but bring them closer to their aparents. Without knowing much about your story, it's entirely possible that they could think "Our (a)parents loved us so much they were willing to break the law for us."

In regards to your other questions, I believe there is no good choice to make. I've seen some very irrational feelings expressed on this site (that doesn't mean they're invalid feelings, just not rational ones) where adoptees are hurt by action or inaction, depending on the circumstance. And then there are people like me who think it's a selfish thing for bparents to initiate contact when none is wanted, but how would the bparent know that? There's really no good answer so I will agree with Dickons that I believe the best course is to make yourself available on the internet and if they decide to search, you're there waiting.

[bumblebeeskies]

To be honest, I would absolutely want to know if I bad been adopted illegally. I would want to know if indeed, my first mom really did want to keep me. Not just the idea that she wanted to keep me, but couldn't (due to whatever circumstances in her life), but that she wanted to keep me in the way that she actually TRIED to keep me. I think that part, would do a lot in combating feelings of abandonment. Your sons might not recognize these feelings now, but may eventually, as they get older.

About testifying in court, in front of a board, etc...

You HAVE to testify. We all HAVE to do whatever we can to stop these crazy things from happening in the future. You have to remember that YOU did NOTHING wrong. It is not your job to protect your boys parents who DID do something wrong. I don't think it matters what they gave they boys. Yes, they probably did give them some things that you may not have been able to. However, their financial status did not make them entitled to YOUR children. This may sound harsh, but what they did isn't so far from kidnapping.

[agree519]

Cetalley,

I just read your story and I sit here with tears in my eyes and my heart just aches for you. You have been through so much, and the love you have for your sons is amazing. It's incredible to know that you love them so much, just to know they are OK is enough to satisfy the trauma of all you went through.

I am on the adoptee side of the fence, and I can only speak for myself. Your twins are adults now. They may or may not know they are adopted. I look at it this way, I think you have every right in the world to tell them that your their birth mother. If they know they are adopted, somewhere inside them, they want to know you. Part of them wants to know that you still think of them, and if you're looking for them it solidifies the idea that you didnt give them up because you're rejecting them; you did it because you loved them.

I think you could tell them their story, up to a point, absolutely honestly. There was a reason why you chose adoption initially, tell them it. Tell them the birth story and that you changed your mind, but that choice was made impossible to accomplish. But as far as telling them the adoption was illegal, I would think about that. I would at least meet them and hear their side. I wouldnt bash their adoptive parents. Let your sons form their own opinions of them. My oldest child was from a prior relationship. Her father is really someone that isnt a good person, and I'll keep it at that. As much as I want to tell her the truth about him, I just give her the credit to be able to form her own opinion. She doesnt need mom to do it for her.

I wish you the best, and you should do what is right for you. It's my opinion that your sons deserve to know their story and they deserve to know your part in it.

If I were your sons, and I had the chance to know that the woman responsible for giving me life loved and cared for me so deeply, and never forgot me... that feeling would be so greatly vindicating for everything.

all my best.

[Drywall]

cetalley...your story extends over a long period and is very convoluted. Much of what you have expressed may remain unresolved.

As a Black Market adoptee, I can relate very well to all you have expressed. My a-parents wanted a child and I was sold into adoption.

For you to go before a panel of judges without legal advice is unfair. Someone needs to represent you at a legal level so that all sides of the case are considered equally. That includes both the past and the present. The entire story may come out...and it should.

Additionally, you have rights as well, and they should be protected. Should you decide to appear before that panel of judges, I urge you to go with an attorney...someone needs to support and speak for your interests....you are a prominent member of this case and you need to be heard.

I wish you the best.

[never_good_enough]

IMO it seems two sides of this triad have given their power over to the third. First had of if in fact I had been adopted in this way I would be mad as hell, because I am quite sure the Aparents would have raised the boys using language and concepts that out of the context of adoption they would find the situation you are in reprehensible. And their Aparents conduct to be criminal. I would feel that I was betrayed continually by my Aparents in both word and deed all my life. To allow them not get away with it is not a mothers duty, it is a civic duty. If adoption was not in the equation I bet the term would be kidnapping. Don't surrender your power to protect your sons again. Letting those, no matter how wealthy or connected continue to do as they wish has come to an end. And should you choose to inform the media hopefully the would be allowed in the courtroom. As it has been said "let all be cleansed by the light of knowledge".

[Krose83]

I am almost 26 years old and I found out about 3 years ago that mine and my brothers' adoptions weren't "legal". It has done nothing but create more questions and anger. Now I do believe that they should know that they are adopted but I don't feel they should ever know the "dark secrets". I am still working on more issues that have surfaced from learning the "truth". I don't think I will ever fully get past the hurt, deceit, betrayal, and again the feeling of abandonment that keeps popping up. I don't believe you should stop looking if they know about they are adopted. It would only hurt them to know you "gave up"

[Daveb2]

There is only one right thing, truth, it may be the hardest for all to bear but must always come out.
I am now 64 and can forgive everyone everything except the lies. We all do what we think is right for us or for someone else but we should never lie about the facts.
I feel for you with this problem but you already know the answer to the question you are asking.
I hope you find a way through.Remember you have the right to love them no matter what.

[Drywall]

Daveb2...I share your sentiments...there is no reason to try to hide the facts regarding an adoption. Someone, somewhere knows, and it will come out.

Even in adoption there are some gray areas and the age old question is always, is it better to tell the adoptee the whole story, or is it better for him to find out on his own and perhaps allow him to make his own judgments?

No matter how badly it hurts, it is a requirement that the adoptee be given a chance to know honestly what the circumstances were...although from chatting with adoptees here, it seems this is not the usual way things are done.

In my own adoption, there was no openess or honesty...i found out on my own and it was devastating.

I wish you the best.

[Amandak249]

I disagree. I don't believe sharing the information that the adoption was illegal , at least in the beginning stages of reunion, is a good idea. I'm not sure if it would ever be an easy thing to hear, a good thing to know about. There is the argument of a "painful truth is better than a pleasant lie." And of course that always holds some water- but I'm not sure about this one.

I also wonder what qualifies as illegal. It could mean a variety of things, and perhaps some clarification would provide us with some more insight. Unfortunately it seems as if the OP has been banned..so we most likely will not get any more information than we have.

The truth will set the OP free, absolutely. And if she gets to knows her sons well enough and grows to have a wonderful relationship with them based on trust, then absolutely it should be revealed to them- slowly, and at the right time. The truth will set HER free, but what will it do to her sons? To their parents? To that family on the whole? There are a lot of people to consider here.

I really think it depends heavily on what "illegal" means in this situation. It could mean anything from straight up kidnapping to coercion to the OP signing with a pencil and the agency erasing it and redoing it with pen. In my opinion sometimes the truth, must be known, sometimes it's better left in the past.