[radiodoll]

I just came back from an interesting conference that was recovery based. It was also gay-based, which made it even more interesting.

One of the conference workshops each year is on Adoptees in Sobriety. I went to it years ago for 2 or 3 consecutive years in the first few years of my sobriety then I stopped attending that particular conference as it is in my home state and I began attending other, larger AA conferences throughout the country. I also came to the conclusion that for me, my local mainstream AA offered more old timers with the leadership I needed in order to gain a solid program of recovery. I came out as a kid and did not suffer from many of the problems that people have when they come out in sobriety. To each her own, however, and I do find that special interest groups in AA offer excellent support for their fellowships and I attend occasionally to celebrate with friends, etc. Actually, I have become a Big Book step study advocate in sobriety.

Anyway - when I attended this conference this year I made it a point to do this Adoptees workshop. I was shocked to see how many people came. They had to bring in more chairs and we far exceeded the size of the room.

I've done a LOT of work in AA, therapy, and in adoption as some of you might know. But it didn't prepare me for how frustrated I am STILL with being a triple minority in this country. There was a LOT of discussion on how adoption is a Core Issue for most Adoptees who are trying to stay sober. Just being central to who we are. Kind of a DUH, right? But the more I listened, the more I realize that I have so much work left to do. It was rather depressing - certainly humbling - and overall, a good observation offered to me by God.

But here's the clincher - one of the lesbians, who also happened to be African-American, made such a basic remark that was so obvious that it completely took me aback. All she said was, "why should I have to wait one whole year to talk about this unique situation with others who are also in this same situation?"

Ya know - that baffled me. Why? Good question?

I want to know - are we out there? How many other recovering alkies and addicts are struggling with the Core Issue of adoption? Are there others of us who are struggling with the added dilemma of being Gay or another minority in an adoptive family or in society in general? Are we large enough to warrant more focused discussion and if so, would we rally to actually maintain the dialog so that others could be helped?

I don't know. I just needed to post this today. If you are reading this and have any positive insight to share, I would be grateful. Do not share hate on this post. It won't serve either you or the others who are desperate to preserve their sobriety.

Thanks for listening and thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Radiodoll

[LMNGambino]

Originally Posted by radiodoll

All she said was, "why should I have to wait one whole year to talk about this unique situation with others who are also in this same situation?"

I don't understand. Wait one whole year. What did she mean by that?

I think adoption is a core "reason" for many addictions, but I also do not discount a genetic predisposition to alcohol and/or drug addictions.

I, for one, drastically limit my social drinking because I am keenly aware of my traits- I tend to go all in or go home, whether it's with food, shopping, smoking, anything- an "addictive personality" per se.

As far as warranting further discussion, someone has to start it, and maybe it's another observation given to you by God. Wow- that's a lot of pressure, lol.

I would imagine these things would make one feel even more isolated from society. A "triple threat" perhaps, in the eyes of society.....

I would be interested to see what you come up with.
Linda

[radiodoll]

A year...meaning that the workshop occurs annually at this particular convention and there does not seem to be other forums throughout the year in which to participate.

Thanks for your response.

Radiodoll

[SWGAgirl]

Hey Radio-

Nice to see you on here again!!! I never saw adoption as being a core issue until I searched for and found my b-mom- then I realized that adoption did actually have a significant role in shaping my feelings re things and colored the way I saw the world and myself within the world. It explained my reactions to different events in life. Those revelations continue to unfold.

As far as adoption being a core issue as it relates to addiction, I think it is one of MANY things that contribute to an already present biological/genetic propensity to addiction. But I can definitely see how feelings of loneliness, low self esteem, feelings of being different/not belonging, being a shameful secret, anger, not knowing your roots (all that adoption stuff) feed addictions as a person seeks to numb the pain or anger.

I don't consider myself to have an addictive personality but the question you raise is interesting. Hope some more people chime in.

Maybe you can get a separate forum "heading" here on adoption forums for these discussions if there is enough interest!

Liz

[manni28]

I don't understand. Wait one whole year. What did she mean by that?

I think adoption is a core "reason" for many addictions, but I also do not discount a genetic predisposition to alcohol and/or drug addictions.

I, for one, drastically limit my social drinking because I am keenly aware of my traits- I tend to go all in or go home, whether it's with food, shopping, smoking, anything- an "addictive personality" per se.

As far as warranting further discussion, someone has to start it, and maybe it's another observation given to you by God. Wow- that's a lot of pressure, lol.

I would imagine these things would make one feel even more isolated from society. A "triple threat" perhaps, in the eyes of society.....

I would be interested to see what you come up with.

As an adoptee I can't agree with your “adoption is the 'core" reason philosophy. For many people, addiction is a genetic disposition. To blame adoption on: low self esteem and feelings of abandonment doesn’t cut it with me. Like you said, and I agree, genetic dispositions plays a huge role in addiction and personalities types.

[LMNGambino]

Originally Posted by manni28

As an adoptee I can't agree with your “adoption is the 'core" reason philosophy. For many people, addiction is a genetic disposition. To blame adoption on: low self esteem and feelings of abandonment doesn’t cut it with me. Like you said, and I agree, genetic dispositions plays a huge role in addiction and personalities types.

There have been countless studies which show adoptees suffer from abandonment issues and low self esteem. In my opinion, to ignore those studies, is no different than ignoring genetic predispositions to alchoholism, diabetes, depression or cancer.

They are all "conditions", except the latter are in our genes. Self esteem and abandonment issues stem from the fact we were adopted.

Now, how we deal with those self esteem and abandonment issues, if we are indeed part of the majority of adoptees, is key. Do we fall into the "blame game" and have a pity party, or do we try to heal?

If we are also predisposed to alcoholism and or depression, the adoption issues can make those issues worse.

While I respect your opinion on adoption not being a trigger for low self esteem or abandonment issues (maybe you are one of the rare ones who missed this boat, lol) I disagree. I cannot dispute studies and other noted research.

Linda

[radiodoll]

Just to be clear:

I do not maintain that adoption is THE reason I drank or drugged. It is not. It is, however, ONE of the core issues woven into - MY - complete self awareness and thus my deepest connection with MY God.

If someone who is reading this is NOT a recovering alkie AND actively working a Big Book 4th step in a step study program they will not understand what I am talking about in this post. This post refers to discussion that happens specifically in step recovery work.

Again, this post is for recovering addicts/alkies who are working on a step study program and who are ALSO minorities in the categories of adoption, possibly coupled with race.

If you are reading this thread and confused, it may be best to speak with your sponsor.

I do NOT speak as a representative of ANY 12 step program and the issues I raise and what I say are STRICTLY my own thoughts and not those of any organization or program.

Thanks for all of the input.

Radiodoll

[SWGAgirl]

Sorry Radio- I don't think any of us were trying to offend you. I guess we all misunderstood the specific group that your intial post was targeted at. Now that I read it again- I see that.

Liz

[manni28]

There have been countless studies which show adoptees suffer from abandonment issues and low self esteem. In my opinion, to ignore those studies, is no different than ignoring genetic predispositions to alchoholism, diabetes, depression or cancer.

They are all "conditions", except the latter are in our genes. Self esteem and abandonment issues stem from the fact we were adopted.

Now, how we deal with those self esteem and abandonment issues, if we are indeed part of the majority of adoptees, is key. Do we fall into the "blame game" and have a pity party, or do we try to heal?

If we are also predisposed to alcoholism and or depression, the adoption issues can make those issues worse.

While I respect your opinion on adoption not being a trigger for low self esteem or abandonment issues (maybe you are one of the rare ones who missed this boat, lol) I disagree. I cannot dispute studies and other noted research.

Well then I am one of the "lucky ones". In regards to the research, how old is the data? Many adoptees that I know are very stable and positive people. They, like me, see adoption as ONE component of their life, not their whole life. I also think SOME (not all adoptees) that suffer from low self-esteem do so because adoption was always in their face. Since I was a child I knew I was adopted, however, my parents didn't "drill" it to me all the time. I knew I was adopted but I was MY parent’s child plain and simple. Not to be harsh, but a lot of times it's easier to blame someone else or something else, instead of looking within.


I wish you the best!

Manni

[lacymarie]

You know what. I think that us adoptees try to fight the truth of the matter. Since we all know that the minority is subordinate to the majority in these matters, this does not mean that it applies to EVERYONE. But for the most part, many if not most adoptees who may have that family history of drinking or drugging may just be more susceptible because of their feelings, whatever they may be, stemming from their adoption. I am one of those people. My oldest bsister is one of those people. My estranged bsister is one of those people. So, people, lets not get all defensive at the facts. Lets get real. A person who feels abandoned or suffer from some sort of separation anxiety may use these substances to get away from reality, whether adopted or not. And because being adopted causes some of these feelings, I don't think that this is an unfair post at all. The first step towards healing anything is acceptance's. I am going to start a whole other post based on this one, because I really get frustrated when I see adoptees who try to eliminate the idea that being adopted can cause some sort of....well... I don't want to say the word because I don't want to offend anyone. But let's just say, when I learned I was adopted I didn't trust anyone. I felt lied to. I felt all weird inside at the idea of telling my parents I love you. So, I got into an alternative lifestyle that included staying Stoned all the time because I didn't want to deal with MY reality. Now.... You can say that this post is unfair but I am living proof of the truth in this post.

[LMNGambino]

[quote=manni28]
Well then I am one of the "lucky ones". In regards to the research, how old is the data? Many adoptees that I know are very stable and positive people. They, like me, see adoption as ONE component of their life, not their whole life. I also think SOME (not all adoptees) that suffer from low self-esteem do so because adoption was always in their face. Since I was a child I knew I was adopted, however, my parents didn't "drill" it to me all the time. I knew I was adopted but I was MY parent’s child plain and simple. Not to be harsh, but a lot of times it's easier to blame someone else or something else, instead of looking within.
___________________________________________

How old is the research? Are you kidding me??? We are just now coming out in droves. Some of the research goes back to the early 1900's, and and as recent as earlier this year. Google it.

My adoption was "never in my face", which, is for me, one of the problems. "Ssshhh...let's not talk about it" . I, too, was my parent's child. But I was ALSO someone else's child, and to deny that loss, that fact, to me, is very unhealthy. Is it my parent's fault? No. They did what they were told. They followed society's directions.

Im not blaming anyone for anything. I detest the blame game. If there's an issue, I do my best to fix that issue, and have taught my daughters the same.

As far as "looking within"??? Why do you think people post here???? Why do some people go to therapy? It's BECAUSE they are looking within.

[sages910]

Interesting thoughts for sure. As a recovering alcoholic of quite a few twenty-four hours, I am unsure if I qualify to respond to this post, because I am not adopted, but feel compelled to do so anyway based on the fact that I earned my seat in the rooms.
My husband and I are both in recovery, and have just adopted a 7 yo boy. He is now living in a sober household, with parents who actively attend meetings and live a relatively sane life with a foundation built on the 12 steps of AA.
What we can clearly see, (the analyzers of behavior that we are) is that his personality is clearly alcoholic in nature. For anyone not familiar with the 'jargon' this means, it is simply that he can never have enough of anything and feels like he is better than and at the same time worst than everyone and anyone. He has all the 'isms' as we say. His personality is so rigid, and his need is so great, the void is almost visible to those in his life that are in program.
Now comes the concern as his parents, we know the parts of the 'shared' family history and being genetically connected through his birthparents and early care providers who all to struggle with various forms of substance abuse. There is also a vague assumption that there was substance abuse while in eutero. Looking at his history, behavioral, social and developmental issues, we can see already that if we do not address the issues, in our opinion, he has the tendancy to become an alcoholic/addict. Not what we want for him, and not a certain destiny, but one that we always need to be aware of.
Having to address the genitics issue, and having to work with therapists, and counselors to un-do damages that were done, I knew that we would have to address the how and whys of having to leave bio-family. I never assumed (maybe because I really was unaware, and recovery is so close to my heart) that he would have to address the adoption issue in this context as well. It just never occurred to me, but from the posts that followed, I can clearly see the connection.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue. It certainly has given me something to think about, and to at least discuss with my sponsor. I guess you get what you need and I needed to read your post. I am grateful I checked in today.
Be Well,
Sage

[manni28]

But let's just say, when I learned I was adopted I didn't trust anyone. I felt lied to. I felt all weird inside at the idea of telling my parents I love you. So, I got into an alternative lifestyle that included staying Stoned all the time because I didn't want to deal with MY reality. Now.... You can say that this post is unfair but I am living proof of the truth in this post.

Why would you not trust anyone? Did your aparents not tell you, you were adopted until you were older?

How old is the research? Are you kidding me??? We are just now coming out in droves. Some of the research goes back to the early 1900's, and and as recent as earlier this year. Google

I would like to see that research- I also wonder if they include other factors such as the genetic disposition of the subjects?

My adoption was "never in my face", which, is for me, one of the problems. "Ssshhh...let's not talk about it" . I, too, was my parent's child. But I was ALSO someone else's child, and to deny that loss, that fact, to me, is very unhealthy. Is it my parent's fault? No. They did what they were told. They followed society's directions
Im not blaming anyone for anything. I detest the blame game. If there's an issue, I do my best to fix that issue, and have taught my daughters the same.

As far as "looking within"??? Why do you think people post here???? Why do some people go to therapy? It's BECAUSE they are looking within.

Not to dismiss your feelings but why would you feel the way you do? Your aparents were doing the best they could; even you acknowledge that. Also, we (as adoptees) don’t know what kind of life we would have if we were raised by our bparents. For a lot of us, we wouldn’t have the opportunities we have today. I truly believe unless the aparents were/are abusive, many of us adoptees are very fortunate to be blessed with good parents and loving family members. Not every child adopted or bio is blessed with good parents.

Again, I wish you the best!

-Manni

[SWGAgirl]

Not to dismiss your feelings but why would you feel the way you do?

Oh no....it's the "grateful adoptee" spiel again.Why does she have to justify her feelings to you? She just explained why she felt the way she does.

I'm sick of people telling us how "grateful" we should be. If we admit to any of these feelings other than "happy happy peppy peppy - yay I'm adopted!" -we are immediately accused of "blaming" or being "ungrateful."

A lot of us get to a point where we can't just shut up and be grateful any longer- we have to "look within" which is why we are on these forums.

(Sorry Radio- this is way off topic.)

[manni28]

Oh no....it's the "grateful adoptee" spiel again.Why does she have to justify her feelings to you? She just explained why she felt the way she does.

I'm sick of people telling us how "grateful" we should be. If we admit to any of these feelings other than "happy happy peppy peppy - yay I'm adopted!" -we are immediately accused of "blaming" or being "ungrateful."

A lot of us get to a point where we can't just shut up and be grateful any longer- we have to "look within" which is why we are on these forums.

Do you know how many people are walking around messed-up because they didn’t have good parents? Do you know how many people would LOVE to have been blessed with a good family? Yes I'm grateful because MY guardians angels bought me and my family together; I ( or anyone of us) could have easily ended up in foster care or with monsters as parents. I count my blessing and I give thanks because not everyone is blessed with a loving family.

Why don’t you try listening to kids in foster care; they would LOVE to have a loving family.