[RavenSong]

Manni, I guess I don't understand why you're protesting the self-identified feelings and issues that other people are having. This group is obviously working on the 4th step of a well-known recovery program, and in doing so, I commend them for taking a good look at their interior lives. It is essential that this step be done thoroughly, and all possible issues need to be examined. This is imperative for those in 12-step programs who sincerely wish to remain clean and sober.

Instead of trying to guilt-trip the posters on this thread, I would think you'd be giving them kudos for having the courage to examine themselves and their issues.

Also, not every adoptee has had the same wonderful upbringing you've had. Adoptive parents are just as apt to mess up their kids as biological parents are. They are not super-heroes...they are only human beings. My two cents, for what it's worth...

[LMNGambino]

Originally Posted by manni28

Do you know how many people are walking around messed-up because they didn’t have good parents? Do you know how many people would LOVE to have been blessed with a good family? Yes I'm grateful because MY guardians angels bought me and my family together; I ( or anyone of us) could have easily ended up in foster care or with monsters as parents. I count my blessing and I give thanks because not everyone is blessed with a loving family.
Why don’t you try listening to kids in foster care; they would LOVE to have a loving family.

Your guardian angels???? No...your adoption agency/broker/lawyer brought you together. Or maybe it was the adoption fairy.

MANY people are not blessed with loving families. inside and outside of the triad.

There is NO such thing as a perfect family, whether we are raise by our birth families, or adopted families.

The original intent of this post was to see if there were other minorities in this part of the triad. Meaning are there any alcoholic, gay AND African American adoptees. A triple whammy, so to speak, in the eyes of society, and to themselves.

I pointed out that it is indeed a triple whammy, and that there are probably more people out there who fit into this category, and that Radiodoll should explore the topic more.

There was never blame being put on anything. To not acknowledge triggers or a valid loss would be irresponsible if one wants to help themselves. I pointed out my addictive nature, which I come by genetically & that being predisposed to a condition is complicated by environmental conditions such a adoption.

It doesn't matter if a birth mom was dirt poor, on drugs, a hooker or a Hollywood star, or a rocket scientist. It just doesn't matter. She gave us life, and then the adoption agency gave us to a new family. A loss is a loss is a loss. It's also a loss that we are not supposed to talk about, a loss that agencies told the a parents will go away, that babies dont remember. WRONG. Its also a lloss in the b mom's life. A loss of her baby, a loss of innocence, and a loss of power, a loss of self esteem for them also. Most b moms during the baby scoop era were belittled ad made to feel guilty and like dirty sinners. Adoptive parents suffer a loss, too. The loss of pregnancies, the loss of not having a child who is just like them either by looks, or abilities, or personalities.

I sincerely hope you google and read up on issues most adopted children may have. Knowledge is power. Here are a few that may help you.

Adoption History: Psychopathology Studies
PsycNET

Issues Facing Adult Adoptees

ScienceDirect - Children and Youth Services Review : Adjustment of international adoptees: Implications for practice and a future research agenda

[RavenSong]

One more thing that I'd like to say on this issue is this. Alcoholism and drug addiction involve much more than merely genetic predisposition. If they were only attributed to genetics, there would be no need for 12-step recovery programs.

Genetic predisposition does not mean that someone will automatically develop alcoholism or addiction. There's more at work here. My own opinion is that it's a combination of the environment acting on the genotype. Another way of looking at it is by saying here is a case where nurture (environment) truly combines with nature (biology).

Interestingly enough, there are also plenty of cases of alcoholism and drug addiction arising in individuals who have NO family history of these diseases. Genetic mutation? Possibly... I don't think anyone really knows yet.

In the meantime, 12-step recovery groups, such as Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, have good, solid success rates if the member works his or her program in a diligent manner. This includes fearlessly working the 4th step. I would imagine that people who have not ever been exposed to recovery programs, either personally or as a family member (Al-Anon and Nar-Anon), would have a hard time understanding what we're talking about.

[LMNGambino]

You know what? That was a bit insensitive, Manni. I was not implying you need help. I meant to say here are a few links to a few studies that could hep you see what most adoptees feel.

I am genuinely happy you have no issues, but you are in the very small minority.

Adoption issues such as low self esteem and abandonment fears are well documented. Im not going to keep posting to this thread, as it has veered off track. Just wanted to clear that up, as my last post seemed a bit snarky at the end, and that was not my intention.

[LMNGambino]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

One more thing that I'd like to say on this issue is this. Alcoholism and drug addiction involve much more than merely genetic predisposition. If they were only attributed to genetics, there would be no need for 12-step recovery programs.

Genetic predisposition does not mean that someone will automatically develop alcoholism or addiction. There's more at work here. My own opinion is that it's a combination of the environment acting on the genotype. Another way of looking at it is by saying here is a case where nurture (environment) truly combines with nature (biology).

Interestingly enough, there are also plenty of cases of alcoholism and drug addiction arising in individuals who have NO family history of these diseases. Genetic mutation? Possibly... I don't think anyone really knows yet.

In the meantime, 12-step recovery groups, such as Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, have good, solid success rates if the member works his or her program in a diligent manner. This includes fearlessly working the 4th step. I would imagine that people who have not ever been exposed to recovery programs, either personally or as a family member (Al-Anon and Nar-Anon), would have a hard time understanding what we're talking about.

Amen! Good night, Raven.

[radiodoll]

No apologies needed. I understood perfectly and it was not you to whom I was speaking, so no worries. I just wanted to be clear and I am of the opinion that unless a person is an actual recovering alkie, that they will not be able to dialogue this thread the way in which it was intended. Certainly my apologies if that seems very direct. Ha! Be well - good to hear from you!!

Radiodoll

[radiodoll]

I am more interested in talking about living in a family - or in an environment, whether you define it as a "neighborhood" or whatever and feeling especially "different" and have difficultly identifying with the other individuals in the environment and how.

Being adopted - whether known or unknown - seems to produce a sense of uniqueness or specialness, as it were, that defines how we see ourselves in relation to others. As a small child, I made decisions about my words and behavior based upon having this information and based upon how others felt about this information and it certainly defined some areas of my early life.

Not good or bad

just different from a child that did not have to integrate these feelings.

Then as my alcoholic personality traits began to fully develop - long before I ever picked up - I, as a child, chose words and behaviors that expressed and integrated those additional feelings of being different. This, I believe, addressed a genetic condition.

A little later on, but not too long, I discovered that I was also pre-disposed to homosexuality. There was never any question or debate. It felt very natural and correct for me as a young person. I also feel that my homosexuality is genetic.

So. I began life with 2 sets of genetic information that put me squarely in to 2 minority positions in society. Although I am sure a case can be made that genetic alcoholism may be a condition of the majority. However, RECOVERING alcoholics are NOT the majority, sadly, and therefore suffer form a second degree of social ostrization ( LOL is that a word???)

You see how complicated it feels.

So.

Starting out feeling and even in some cases KNOWING that you are "different" set a tone for how I related to the world. In my case it was "don't talk, don't tell". Then it was being gay which was CERTAINLY "don't talk, don't tell" and finally in recovery it's "good for you, you're in recovery just don't try and inflict it on anyone else". LOLOLOLOLOL Those of you who live around active drinkers know what I am saying.

It's weird not to have any stable forums in this country where those of us who have lived with this much societal pressure can converse in peace and support. You see already how this thread has aggravated those that aren't part of this group. You see, even in recovery, amid my so-called peers, these added elements of my life make it a challenge to communicate on a particular level. I find it interesting. Of course, at this level I find that I simply re-invest in my spiritual life and expand my personal dialog with my God. But there remains, despite all the ground I have covered, an innate feeling of being "different" that can distance me from most others. It's just interesting.

And I would like to talk to those who find that, perhaps, they are in this same boat in recovery.

Thanks to all for responding.

Radiodoll

[Sylvan]

I've found this thread interesting. In a way, i think many of us feel different or isolated in some respect, whether we are a part of multiple minorities or not.

Myself, i am adopted and Jewish, but cannot claim any other specific minority affiliations. Yet i can see that both of these *differences* have made me approach things in my life differently than if i was not.

I do have a question for those of you who have suffered from alcoholism.

I do drink. I do not think that i am an alcoholic, but i do have wine with dinner fairly regularly and one of my favorite Sunday afternoon activities is to visit a winery (preferably one we haven't been to) and take their tour. Often we take a picnic lunch and enjoy a bottle of wine from the newly discovered winery. Many of the local wineries around here also have fabulous music and art festivals. We probably do this 4 or 5 times a year.

My question stems from information i discovered upon reunion with my b-mother. It seems that both of her parents died from alcohol related disease and she abused alcohol for many years as well. She still drinks, but not in excess anymore, as far as i can tell. I do worry however. Do i have a genetic disposition for alcoholism? Or did my upbringing in a family that does drink, but doesn't abuse alcohol, overcome that and prevent me from developing a dependency?

I will admit to getting *drunk* a few times in my life, but i can honestly say that it felt horrible. I did not like the feeling of not being in control of myself and got sick to my stomach the few times i drank too much. This was mostly in college, but did happen once since - when absinthe became legal again and we just had to try it. The remainder of that bottle is still on top of our fridge and will likely stay there forever as a reminder of what not to do.

Thank you in advance for any insight into this.

[radiodoll]

What great questions! And thanks for responding.

There is no test which can be done for this disease. The American Medical Association suggests that a person can self diagnose by utilizing the set of questions developed by Alcoholics Anonymous. A further, more direct test method is offered in the text book used in AA.
If, after the test, the patient is satisfied that they are alcoholic, AA suggests a solution which can also be found in the same text.

Personally, I don't try and diagnose anyone. I was barely able to be honest enough to diagnose myself!! HA! At any rate, the great thing is that, as with all genetically based diseases, those that are pre-disposed don't always contract the disease. This is true in the case of alcoholism. Although alcoholism is more insideous in a way because it is also a "thinking" disease, meaning that a patient can exhibit the symptoms in their behavior and approach to life without actually being allergic to the alcohol itself. Really interesting stuff, actually.

You sound pretty healthy to ME! Ha! Seriously, it doesn't sound as if you are suffering from this condition at all. But if you are ever curious for more info or insight there is much good info out there.

I prefer the American Medical Association and Alcoholics Anonymous only because they have the highest and most consistant success rate in helping people to recover and live complete lives since the 1930's. But that is STRICTLY MY opinion and I do NOT speak for either of them or any other organization.

You sound like a great person -

be well.

Foxfollower

[cetalley]

I have a question....or maybe just a comment! I am a Firstmom and have faught types of addiction that basically started within months of my relinquishing my twin sons. I can honestly say I did not have these demons before I became pregnant with them. I slowly became aware that I was alone in MY world, yes I had a wonderful son and an okay relationship with the twins father, but none-the-less alone. No one to understand what I was going through. I don't know what qualifies one to be an "addict", but for 22 yrs now have at times drank and smoked to be able to handle my thoughts of my horrible nightmare of relinquishing my twins...after all what kind of person can do that? I am able to go several days without drinking and several days without smoking, but then I have a really hard day of thoughts about them and feel like I can only "make "it if I have a cig. and drink to dull my grief. Does this make me an addict and do you think there is the slightest chance my sons are out there dealing with this issue in the same way...I ask because I also see...some believe it is genetic. If so what have I done to them, when all I ever wanted was for them to be in a stable ,providing ,loving home. I know you nor anyone can possibly answer the latter, but does this qualify me as an addict? Any comments are welcome!

[radiodoll]

Hey, there -

Thanks for responding and you have good questions, although I am not sure that I am able to answer them with any authority.

I can recommend that since you are online you might want to go to the AA website or others that utilize the AA literature and read some of the stories. I found that there are many different stories - all valid - on how and when a person's disease is activated. They also discuss why they drank and how that they couldn't STAY stopped, regardless of how religious they were or how great a moral character they possessed. It's interesting. It seems to be that my problem was never stopping - I stopped often - but I couldn't STAY stopped, not even when I KNEW utterly that the consequences would be dire. Of course, it was not that way when I started. But at some point I began to realize that I wasn't taking the drink....rather, the drink was taking me.

Again, I am certainly not able to speak for or about anyone else. But I can tell you that if you are interested to hear more that there are what are called "Open" AA meetings where you do NOT have to be an alcoholic and you do NOT have to say your name or ANYTHING AT ALL where you can just sit and listen. These meetings are usually listed in your local newspaper by town, day and time and they are marked "O" for open. Other types of AA meetings are what are called "closed" because a person has to be self-declared an Alcoholic to attend. Open meetings serve the purpose of letting any person at all find out more about the disease first hand in anonymity. Personally, I recommend that a person try at least 6 open meetings prior to deciding whether they are in the right place. But there are no rules or regulations about anything at all. None. But don't take it from me - I'm just another bozo on the bus. Try going to the AA web sight and investigating. Try reading the book. It's interesting and worth the time, in my opinion.

Good Luck -

Foxfollower