[ocracoke]

Originally Posted by paisley83

I understand what you say. However I cant understand how you can say "I can't think of a single circumstance that would lead me to that kind of medical treatment" could be pro-choice. I just dont see how, on one hand you wouldn't ever have one (why I might ask) but on the other feel that it is ok for someone else to do so. Pro-choice is the same as pro-abortion in my eyes. I know that people will disagree with me.. but I feel that by saying you are pro-choice, its the same as saying I do not care if you have an abortion. By saying you are pro-choice, you are basically saying, I am FOR(considering pro means for) someone having an abortion if she chose to.. and by saying that, in my opinion you say I am Pro(for)-Abortion

I am pro choice. If faced with the decision of how to deal with an unplanned pregnancy (easy for me to say since it will never happen) then I would make the CHOICE not to have an abortion. I also think that everyone should have the choice given that situation. It is not my choice to make their decision. I am not pro abortion. But I have sat holding a friend's hand who made that choice. I have mourned with a friend who made that choice. I have had many conversations with friends, clients and relatives who have been faced with that choice. If faced with that choice I would give birth but it is not my place to make that decision for anybody other then myself. What I would do gives me no right to judge others with their choices.

Samantha

[crick]

Originally Posted by paisley83

By saying you are pro-choice, you are basically saying, I am FOR(considering pro means for) someone having an abortion if she chose to.. and by saying that, in my opinion you say I am Pro(for)-Abortion

Well, no. The key here is to use the phrase as written and not twist it. Pro-Choice is the phrase, correct? Therefore it's FOR CHOICE. I'm also Pro Sex Ed, does that then mean I advocate for teens everywhere to go bopping along having sex? No. It means I'm FOR the education needed to help them make the CHOICES they are making.

I don't agree with certain religions and think many of them are Anti Women. But that doesn't give me the right to go tell someone they shouldn't have the choice to practice that religion. Even if it means harming themselves (in my opinion, there are practices in religions that are harmful). I don't agree with it but it's their choice to make because it's their body, their mind and their heart.

This is just one of those things though...being on the opposite sides mean just that and we'll never agree the other is correct.

[belleinblue1978]

I chose not to have an abortion as well when I was faced with an unexpected pregnancy, so did my firstmother.

Key word there CHOSE. Just because I made that choice doesn't mean it is right for me or anyone else to force that choice on other people.

I too refuse to be fodder for the pro-life movement both as an adopted adult and a firstmom. Sorry, but neither myself nor my son should have to be greatful, just because of our adoption status.

[paisley83]

Ok, so I have to ask.. Are you really supporting pro choice because you believe that women should have the right to choose if she wants to have an abortion? Or is it more about not wanting someone telling you what you can or cannot do?
Are people willing to give up what they think is right/wrong for the ability to make a choice?
I understand this a free country and we are free to have our opinions, which I am thankful for.. but where is the line drawn or do you not think there should be?

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by paisley83

Are people willing to give up what they think is right/wrong for the ability to make a choice?

It's not an either/or for me. If you believe that abortion is wrong then you never have to have one. It's that simple to me. I don't like either side of the political spectrum to make choices for me based on their own idiology. I don't like the religious right trying to legislate morality and I don't like the far left acting as a "nanny state".

[vegaschristina]

Are you really supporting pro choice because you believe that women should have the right to choose if she wants to have an abortion? Or is it more about not wanting someone telling you what you can or cannot do?

It's not about me not wanting someone to tell me what I can or cannot do. It's more about me not feeling it's my place to tell you (societal, not specific you) what to do. I think the decision to have an abortion should be made between a woman and God.

[MamaS]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

It's not an either/or for me. If you believe that abortion is wrong then you never have to have one. It's that simple.

Well said, Paige. I happen to believe that drinking is wrong. It is a religious/moral belief of mine. I don't drink and never have. That said, I don't believe in banning alcohol for everyone, BUT I do believe in education on responsible drinking and laws that punish irresponsible drinking. So, I am pro-choice when it comes to alcohol. And for the exact same reasons, I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion.

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by vegaschristina

It's not about me not wanting someone to tell me what I can or cannot do. It's more about me not feeling it's my place to tell you (societal, not specific you) what to do. I think the decision to have an abortion should be made between a woman and God.

HER God, her conscience, her choice. Not someone else's! And I personally would NEVER have an abortion (unfortunately it is unlikely I will be faced with that choice) but it doesn't mean I would want to deny other women control over their own bodies.

It's dangerous, irresponsible and backwards to say what a woman can and cannot do with her own body!

I still don't hear anyone coming up with a solution for the already extremely high infant mortality rate in our inner cities. IF R v W gets overturned there will be 2,3, 4 X MORE BABIES dying AFTER birth?! We already have the highest infant mortality rate of the 27 wealthiest nations. Is that not worrying anyone?

Nobody is talking about what happens in our INNER CITIES to people below the poverty line who are getting pregnant. I thought Hurricane Katrina might make them less invisible but still it's a dirty little American secret! If we let R v W get overturned yet again they are the ones who will suffer the most.

[txrnr]

So, we make abortion illegal, and we have a woman with an unwanted pregnancy. What are her options? Sending her child to live with others? Foster care? Having her family take a child they may not want? I would venture to guess that many of us here with great adoption experiences don't necessarily think adoption itself is always a great thing.

It's easy to say no abortion, but fix the problem of what causes these unwanted pregnancys and the abortion point is moot. We will never stop people from having "accidents" with sex, and we will never stop abortions. Hate it all you want, but the pro-life movement is banging their head against a wall that isn't moving. Abortions didn't just pop up after Roe v. Wade, they've been around for centuries. At least now, we have the opportunity to educate people, to have them see a medical professional.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by paisley83

dpen6

Yes! You should of been born, and you were born!! And you should be thankful! Everyday we should be thankful, whether we were adopted or not. What about the baby the mother is carrying, wouldn't it want to be born, to have the life all of us have been given?! You say you deserved to be born, everyone deserves to be born! Why do you consider yourself so much more important?!

Tell me how having the mindset that these girls should have their baby's is so bad? Why is it so bad for them to be willing to give their child to someone that may not be able to have their own, but is perfectly capable of loving and raising that child? Yes, unfortunately there are cirumstances that the child could be placed in an abusive home. But that could happen to anyone, adopted or not.. and its a very sad truth.

Also.. you should look up the definition for shizophrenia..

Ah but you see there is my gripe.You are telling me how to feel, you are in no position to tell me if I should or should not be grateful for life. You are in no postion to tell another person what to do with their pregancy,early on pregancy. I consider myself important enough to not let others tell me how I should feel about my life. The reality is I could have been aborted and I never would have known the differnce, or maybe come back as some else or whatever your beliefs are.

As far as me or you or anyone else telling these girls that "they should have their babies" is obnoxious and holier then tho'..they really "should "be allowed to make their own decisions. When does the "shoulds" stop? Does it stop at making them stay pregant when it might hurt them, does it stop after they have their babies, does it stop when someone says ...give that baby away you don't dereseve that baby.....

Have you ever talked to an abused adoptee....its a double whammy...that attiude that "oh well it could have happeded even if you were not adopted doesn't work here. Maybe if they were not adopted they might not have been abused. Try dealing with that.

Actually I do know what schizoprenia is...don't need to look it up...alittle nasty there ..eh? Used that term to portray the craziness that adoption can be. These girls that give up their babies after not having an aortion are derides as bad girls ..they are often cast away...its sad. But on the flip side its called a miracle and wonderful.. You have one mother that is being told they are doing a wonderful thing to give awya ther child then told that they were bad to do that..."HOW COULD YOU GIVE AWAY YOU OWN CHILD", then you have the child who is suppose to be more grateful to be alive(after all you could have been aborted" and if you were abused..."oh well it could have happended if you were not adopted...thats crazy...its schizoprenic. Not based in reality.

[jwmjwm]

This is a bit off the original topic - I apologize - but I also really hate this idea that since I was adopted I should be grateful that my b-mother "chose life." I've actually been asked by people, "Aren't you glad you weren't aborted?" Um... sure. Aren't you?

I'm pretty certain, given her story, that my bio mother didn't consider abortion (and it wasn't so available at the time). I'm sure there are some adoptees whose bio mothers considered abortion at some point, but I'm also sure there are some children raised by bio parents whose mothers faced the same dilemna.

Just wanted to add my two cents about that. ;-)

[wishfulthinker]

Some one had mentioned partial birth abortion & I'd like to chime in and say that is a whole different topic. It is sick and most people truly would consider it murder as it is performed when the woman is carrying a full term baby. This practice should most definitely be outlawed.

As far as abortion goes ... it is important to remember that what we are discussing is an embryo, not a baby. Yes, it has the potential of someday becoming a baby, but it is not at the time an adortion is performed. An abortion ends a pregnancy before an actual baby develops.

I agree that abortions have been around for a very long time and will continue to exist whether or not they are leagal. The problem is that if they are not legal, then only those women with monitary means are able to choose to have one performed safely. A lot of women/girls would be getting the "back alley" abortions and risking their lives to end their pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies are also something that will always exist, no matter how much education we provide for kids. Yes, it is important that we provide education. Parents should teach their children according to their beliefs and schools should also teach sex education. I'm sure it plays a role in prevention with a lot of girls. But, when an unplanned pregnancy does occur, girls/women should have choices, including abortion; safe abortion.

I've read the book The Girls Who Went Away and it opened my eyes to the reality that girls with an unwanted pregnancy had to face a generation ago. I hope that our society never repeats the injustices that were done to women back then. Although, we as a society still have a long way to go with this. Just because a girl gets pregnant does not make her any less of a person. It makes me very sad that there are still people who look down on pregnant girls and their families. I could start a whole other thread about this!
I'm getting off on a tangent...

Anyways, I believe that it is important that we as a society provide choices for our girls/women. That is why I am pro-choice. I love my country, but I don't believe that my government should have the right to make the abortion decision for our girls/women by making it illegal.

-

[paisley83]

Dpen6 - I apologize, I understand how it feels to be told how someone should feel, especially when it comes to being adopted. I get angry when people say stuff like you should feel special, you were chosen.. More like paid for in my opinion.. I live my life day to day, thankful that I am alive and not just because my birth mom chose to have me. I view each new day as a blessing and that I was born for a reason. Its part of my way of getting through things. You asked if I have ever talked to an abused adoptee.. I am one. Would life of been any better had I stayed with my biological family.. No.. I was told by my birth mom, every woman in this family has been sexually abused, part of the reason I gave you up was so you wouldn’t have to go through what I’ve been through. A lot of good that did me because it happened anyway…


I do think that sex education is the best way to help prevent pregnancy and stds among teens. Its getting them to actually listen that’s part of the problem. Someone said earlier, teens are being taught about drugs. Still, they know where to find them, and are still using. it’s the same with forms of birth control. It can be available to them, if they would just choose to use it. I think the same person said they feel invincible, I agree with that. They just don’t think that it can happen to them. I also think that part of the problem is that they know they have options in case of pregnancy. So its like.. Why bother with condoms, if I get pregnant I can always have an abortion. How do they learn with out consequences.. you touch a hot stove, you get burned... You have unprotected sex, theres a possibility of pregnancy. Take away the possibility of having a baby and what are they going to decide to do?

Abortion is one of those things that is very sad to me.. Its sad because its something that has become so common in our society and is viewed as a necessary way out of an unwanted pregnancy. Its sad because, like some of you have said.. If its made illegal, girls will be getting them done anyway, and it may not be done safely... Its sad becuase we sit here and argue about being pro-life or pro-choice(and we will probably never agree) When what we should be doing is trying to figure out a way to make teens listen, so they don't get to that place where they have to decide(whether to keep, adoption, or abortion)

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by paisley83

Dpen6 - I apologize, I understand how it feels to be told how someone should feel, especially when it comes to being adopted. I get angry when people say stuff like you should feel special, you were chosen.. More like paid for in my opinion.. I live my life day to day, thankful that I am alive and not just because my birth mom chose to have me. I view each new day as a blessing and that I was born for a reason. Its part of my way of getting through things. You asked if I have ever talked to an abused adoptee.. I am one. Would life of been any better had I stayed with my biological family.. No.. I was told by my birth mom, every woman in this family has been sexually abused, part of the reason I gave you up was so you wouldn’t have to go through what I’ve been through. A lot of good that did me because it happened anyway…


I do think that sex education is the best way to help prevent pregnancy and stds among teens. Its getting them to actually listen that’s part of the problem. Someone said earlier, teens are being taught about drugs. Still, they know where to find them, and are still using. it’s the same with forms of birth control. It can be available to them, if they would just choose to use it. I think the same person said they feel invincible, I agree with that. They just don’t think that it can happen to them. I also think that part of the problem is that they know they have options in case of pregnancy. So its like.. Why bother with condoms, if I get pregnant I can always have an abortion. How do they learn with out consequences.. you touch a hot stove, you get burned... You have unprotected sex, theres a possibility of pregnancy. Take away the possibility of having a baby and what are they going to decide to do?

Abortion is one of those things that is very sad to me.. Its sad because its something that has become so common in our society and is viewed as a necessary way out of an unwanted pregnancy. Its sad because, like some of you have said.. If its made illegal, girls will be getting them done anyway, and it may not be done safely... Its sad becuase we sit here and argue about being pro-life or pro-choice(and we will probably never agree) When what we should be doing is trying to figure out a way to make teens listen, so they don't get to that place where they have to decide(whether to keep, adoption, or abortion)

AH GEEZ paisley,

I am so sorry you have had to endure what you have and you sound like you have done a great job taking care of yourself and in spite of what happened to you appear to be very strong and competant. You Fight the good fight!!! I respect that.

we probaly won't agree on abortion but I do agree it can't be used as birthcontrol, but I DO understand your sense of sadness. It is sad.

Again, I am sorry if i caused you any pain or discomfort....sometimes the mouth flaps without thinking.

Really, with all the attention sex gets with kids and parenting when are we as aa society going to give the same amout of energy to child abuse both in bio and adoptive families. Especially pediphilia.

Again, I am NOT anti adoption at all....but to be both adopted and then abused must be horrible. I am glad and impressed in your ability to think of your blessings....I think your attiudes is one blessing you can be proud of...

[Tazer]

I know I will probably get blasted severely for this but here is my $.02 on the manner of abortion and Senator Obama...First of all he is my choice for the next President of the USA for many reasons, one of them being that he is pro-choice. It isn't my only reason or even one of my top 10 reasons but it is a stance I admire. I would never ever elect a leader who would dare dictate what I can and can not do with MY body. I would not have married a man who would take away my ability to decide. This is the 21st century and I refuse to take a step backwards. My mind, my body, my choice.

I also agree with the posters who stated pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. I have faced an unwanted pregnancy, my reunited daughter was conceived during a violent rape involving multiple offenders that occurred while I was a virgin. I thank God I had a choice and in exercising it I chose to deliver and place my daughter for adoption. I don't feel society OR THE PRESIDENT had the right to insist I carry her any more than they had the right to insist I abort her. I know how traumatic my nightmare was and some dark nights it still is, and even though I was strong enough with family support and excellent counselors to overcome the trauma I know not every female is. For that woman I say choose on my sister...

I personally have never had nor do I ever plan on having an abortion. I am the mother of twin teenage daughter's who are both competing for valedictorian this year. They are already receiving college offers and both plan on becoming doctor's. They are drug and alcohol free, very respectful, very nice young ladies, however at least one (maybe both) of them became sexually active this summer.

I've always preached abstinence first in my home. The other lesson I taught was protection. They have "Jack and Jill" type bedrooms with a bathroom in between and there are condoms located next to the sanitary products that I placed in a cabinet in that bathroom after our talks. I check on what needs to be re-stocked when I comprise my weekly shopping list. I prayed that they'd wait on marriage but I know temptation is everywhere, and they are no angels. Like Senator Obama I do not want my daughters' bright futures to be jeopardized or have them punished by an unwanted pregnancy should the protection fail or they forget to use it. Should either or both of them find themselves in this predicament then together as a family we'd sit down and make the decision on how to proceed and which choice to make. Adoption as well as abortion would be on the list.

My daughters and the people responsible for supporting them financially and emotionally are the only people qualified to do this IMO, not some uninvolved politicans from Anywhere USA who can not balance the budget enough to provide them and their unplanned children with reasonable health care and affordable decent housing.

Just my $.02 Tracy