[Dickons]

I tried to not be upset by this yesterday but it haunted me all day. Nothing whatsoever to do with his topic of sex education but rather...

The puritanical views that link premarital pregnancy with punishment (by God) that upset me. This is the mindset that created the perfect family image that was so prevalent in the closed adoption era of the 50's and 60's. Mothers without the sanctity of marriage were being "punished" by society (not God) for not following societies dictates of what a perfect family was.

Society instead of offering help and humanity during that era, chose to be judgemental while at the same time the saying "The first one can come anytime, the second one takes 9 months" was all it took to make it okay if the couple were married.

I want to live in a society that chooses to help - not judge one another.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[crick]

Dickons - I can see that view...however I believe the focus of his speech was on Teens, not unmarried adult women. Unless I missed something, I didn't see anything about marriage etc. so not sure how you get that feeling from education on sex for children?

Brenda - yes, yes...good way to put it.

[Dickons]

You are right - it had nothing to do with the focus of his speech - I tried to say that...

Rather it was how the words themselves "punnished with a baby" triggered me into thinking about how society can help or harm. Back in the 50's and 60's there were many rushed marriages of teenagers who found them in the family way, dictated by society as the right thing to do.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[bprice215]

I agree Brandy, the message he is trying to covey is about educating our children and I agree 100 per cent with that. You don't have to support him to agree with his message.
bprice215

[loveajax]

Dickons, I see your point. I definitely think it was really a poor choice of words (though I definitely agree with the "underlying" message that abstinence only education is hoohah). I really honestly refuse to see children as "punishment" for any kind of mother, teen, unmarried, whatever.

Of course, in full disclaimer mode, I am a HRC supporter!

[brookejohanna]

i had my daughter when i was 17 and though i didnt see it as being punished, i did go to school with these huge posters on the walls showing a teen with a baby and it said " imagine being grounded for 18 years", and another one of a young girl holdning a screaming child with this statement underneath that i cant remember word for word but it was about how having a baby is like working for a demanding boss who needs you 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no pay......

if that isnt telling a teen that they will be punished then i dont know what is

[Leigh131313]

my son's birthmom was 14 when he was conceived......

I personally have no issue with what he said (tho being a Canadian, it really doesn't matter what i think!!)

I understand what he's saying.....alot of people DO view getting pregnant as punishment. I don't see my son as punishment to his birthmom, however his conception did force her to make some decisions that honestly I don't think a 14/15 year old is mature enough to make. It just kinda put her in one of those "between a rock and a hard place" situations.

I apreciate that he is advocating for education.

[mariarippy]

The posts on this website should be included in all sex education classes around the country. NO need to spend more tax payer dollars. This website is testament. No need for speeches in the political arena to label teens having babies and or labeling the babies as punishment. When Obama was asked to reflect back on his daughters... Are they a punishment...? then and only then.... no of course not. Is he so inexperienced in this arena? Its hard to say.

February 18th or so... Michelle Obama said she was for the FIRST TIME proud to be an American... and this pastor yeller screamer who's his name deal....

I don't want to see these people in White House until 2020. They need time. I want to have more than change in my pockets at best until my kids are grown.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Dickons

The puritanical views that link premarital pregnancy with punishment (by God) that upset me. This is the mindset that created the perfect family image that was so prevalent in the closed adoption era of the 50's and 60's. Mothers without the sanctity of marriage were being "punished" by society (not God) for not following societies dictates of what a perfect family was.

Dickons, being a birthmom from the "closed era" of adoptions, I came face-to-face with society's condemnation of unwed motherhood. The punishment per se for having premarital sex wasn't the actual pregnancy or taking care of a baby. The punishment that society demanded of us back in those years was that we surrender our babies, so they could be raised in two-parent households. Some social workers were even bold enough to use words like "redemption" and "penance". It was a hard world to maneuver, especially if you were a teenage girl who found herself "in trouble".

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

He should have said "I don't want any grandchild of mine to be punished with a 14 year old mother."

BINGO....... Amazing how the little human gets lost in these discussion.

I really hope that I or any adoptee, donar concieved or even planned pregnancy was considered a punishment.

There needs to be such a shift in attitudes regarding babies and children in this society. I was brought up to beleive that babies are a gift and it is up to the adults in their world to treasure that gift. I still am amazed when in this day and age an unplannd pregnany whether it be in good circumstanses or bad it is the child that hasd to "pay" in some way. Fat to often, not only in the adoption world but In real life the children are suppose to fulfill a need in the adult. It blows my mind...as I was NOT brought up that way...THANK GOD...my mom and grandmother taught me the right way.

[Dickons]

Raven, I feel so badly about what society did to all birth parents. I was raised by parents who were aware of the consequences of societies actions and tried to help.

Dad was a forward thinker regarding genetics and what part they play in the strengths and frailties of an individual physically and mentally, in addition to being a family doctor before abortion was legalized. He saw the results on girls who had the "back street abortions" come in to the office for him to make well.

Our family openly talked about everything and they never ever put any "shame" or "blame" on my birth parents and always recognised that their children had two sets of parents and that we had enough love to go around to everyone. That it was natural to miss them and wish things could have been different but everything happened for a reason and not to judge anyone. They also were very aware of how each of us were different, that we would react in different ways and what worked for them or one of us wasn't always going to work for another.

I think the most important lesson they taught me was to make my own carefully thought out decisions. That my own values should not be swayed because everyone said something was bad.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[RavenSong]

Dickons, I wish I could have met your parents ~ they sound like they were wonderful, loving people. I wish more people were like them in today's world. There is enough love to go around for everybody. It's so nice that your folks were secure enough in their own hearts to speak of your birth parents in positive terms and not be judgmental of them.

It sounds like your dad was a really wise man. I, too, have seen the horrible effects of a "backstreet" abortion. Many years ago, I was working in a hospital in New Mexico, when we had an emergency admission of a young woman being flown in from Taos. Even though abortion was legal then (late 1970's), this woman and her husband had turned to an unlicensed midwife/abortionist because they simply didn't have the money to pay a doctor. To make a long story short, I watched a young woman die in a very horrible way several days later. We just couldn't save her...the infection was too advanced. It is something I hope never to experience again.

Dickons, I'm always touched when I read your posts. You clearly have a lot of compassion in your heart for birthmoms. And I thank you for that...

[rainmon]

I agree with Ravensong.....if only you could help your parents share their philosophies with us all... their story should be told.....
if only...

[Lamaena]

Which people do you mean when you say "I don't want to see these people in White House until 2020. They need time." ? If we are getting really technical about people's choice of words, it sounded like you were referring to black people. Maybe your issue is more the color of his skin and not so much his choice of words.
Personally, I believe in his message and support his candidacy. Perhaps punishment wasn't the best choice of words for Obama considering the context in which it was used, but, I understood the message and support it.

Originally Posted by mariarippy

The posts on this website should be included in all sex education classes around the country. NO need to spend more tax payer dollars. This website is testament. No need for speeches in the political arena to label teens having babies and or labeling the babies as punishment. When Obama was asked to reflect back on his daughters... Are they a punishment...? then and only then.... no of course not. Is he so inexperienced in this arena? Its hard to say.

February 18th or so... Michelle Obama said she was for the FIRST TIME proud to be an American... and this pastor yeller screamer who's his name deal....

I don't want to see these people in White House until 2020. They need time. I want to have more than change in my pockets at best until my kids are grown.

[Dickons]

Raven and Rainmom,

The older I get and the more I go through, the more I am aware of how incredible they are. I lost my dad two years ago at the age of 91 (dad was 46 when they adopted me). But dad is still with me every day because he taught me about everything in life, so everything I do reminds me of him. Dad touched so many hearts and souls during his life time, anyone who needed his help got it. I think many of us he touched, continue his actions by trying to make a difference. Your posts made me realize that this morning. Below is what happened yesterday that shows that what you do can affect others.

Last winter I befriended a homeless man, helping him out each time I saw him, a very gentle soul. Yesterday, as I was leaving the hospital after a carotid artery scan we ran into each other in the lobby. He came over to me to tell me the doctor had just told him he had lung cancer. He was so scared so we got a coffee and went outside. He said they caught it early and if he is strong enough to have surgery he has a chance. Both of us are so fortunate to live in Canada where everyone gets taken care of by the same medical system. I'm glad I was there to talk to him, I think it helped him.

Kind regards,
Dickons