[kal]

Hi I am new to this forum. I am 38 y.o. mom of 7 wonderful kids of my own. My amom and I have not had a great relationship. She is and always has been very controlling. My bmom found me when I was 16. And my amom made it very clear how upset and hurt she was by this intruder. So meeting her, as much as I wanted to with my amom knowledge was out of the quesitons. I did meet her when I was 18 and we have had a great relationshiop ever since. Although, it has always been just over the phone due to the fact my amom lives in town and I am so afraid she will pop in a find her there. Now, my kids are older and can tell my amom about my bmom if they were to meet her. I want them to know her so badly. Why do I protect my amom feelings. She has never ever regarded my feelings about anything. I have always been a disappointment and screw up in her mind, at least that is how she makes me feel. She has said so many hurtful things over the years to me. She ripped me apart once when I had a miscarriage and told me "YOu better do something about that so this doesn't happen again" If she had her way I would have had my tubes tied after my 3rd child. My husband and I were very hurt by her unthoughtful comments over the loss of our child. Why, when my amom has done nothing but hurt me with her words and opinions do I care if she finds out about my bmom being in the picture. I want my kids to know my bmom and that can't happen unless my amom finds out about it. I know this is her insecurity but I let it stop me from doing what I want to do. I consider her feelings when she doesn't give a crap about mine. Sorry, she (my amom) just hurt me once again yesterday and I am just trying to figure out my feelings and I am angry and hurt once again. Just venting and after reading through all these posts for most of today I thought this would be as a place as any. Thanks for listening.....

[Quinte]

You have to remember that your amom tried to raise you as her own even though she did not give birth to you so you have to respect her for that. On the next hand you are 38 yrs. old married with 6 children and I think you are mature enough to make the decision that you want without repercussion's from anybody. I think your children have a right to know their bio.grandmother and anyother relative's that are out there. You can never have too many people LOVING you in today's society

GOOD LUCK and GOD BLESS

[KaseyHamnerM.S.]

Oh, where to begin on this one. As someone who has had to remove my adoptive mother from my life I will tell you that the guilt you feel must stop. You are not doing anything wrong. You have the right to have your bmom in your life if you choose. It is not like your amom was wonderful to you. She was horrible. That statement after your misscarraige—I would have ended it there. I live my life and only include those that build me up not tear me down. You are 38, you are an adult and you have your children to think of. Good luck.

kasey
kaseyhamner.com

[lemonchutney]

First let me say that this advice comes from my own knowledge and experience, and may or may not be useful to you.

If I try to put myself in your amom's shoes, I'd want gentle, tactful honesty. Don't continue the secrecy for another generation. Be honest about who you are, but do so tactfully and with care not to hurt your amom any more than might be necessary.

Also, at another time, you might want to be honest with your amom about the hurt she has caused you in the past. But don't combine this with the conversation about your bmother. They are separate issues. Keep them separate.

Also be willing to look at the mistakes you might have made in the past in regards to your relationship with your amom. During 38 years, there are bound to be mistakes on both sides. This is important: After you look at your mistakes, forgive yourself fully. {{Hugs}}

Good luck to you.

[HappyMomAnna]

Kal--I am an adoptive mother now and my biological children are 19 and 20 and thier father is an adoptee also. His Amom has some very simular issues that you seem to feel your amom has. My ex's amom even went so far as to beg him to NEVER look until she dies! He has never found his birthmother but has recently gotten his original birthcertificate--which he keeps secret from his amom in order to spare her from having hurt feelings.

........During my whole marriage (14 years) to him I never could actually understand his amoms whole head trip about finding his birthmother. Nor could I understand his need to protect her from any questions he might ask or deal with. Poor guy has some very sad fantasy stories he has lived his whole life with and really is messed up. He too does not feel like he has ever measured up in any real way. He was raised in a white collar family and turned out to be an electrician which to most people is a fine career--but not to him! To him it is a failure and must be genetic proof that he did not have what it took to wokr behind a desk!

Anyway, years after my divorce and remarriage I am an adoptive mother of two. And simi civil relationship with my ex-'s Amom as she is the grandmother to my children. And we once actually found ourselves in a situation of having a conversation.

Of course I was interested in her experience and felt entitled to ask several questions amom to amom. And my ex's feelings were no longer relevant so I did.

One of the overriding thoughts that continued to come from her was that in the day she adopted her children it was assumed there would NEVER be contact with the birthmother. Amom's were told the birthmothers never wanted anyone to find out they had placed their baby for adoption. It was a horrible secret. This was 40 years ago so close to the same era of your adoption. Things were so very different then. Amom's walked out of the process believeing that the birthmother would never ever be a factor.

In those days birthmoms did not select the adoptive family...adoptive families waited at home for a phone call telling them they had a new baby girl or boy. The went to the agency and got their child and went home. There was little or no counseling for those adoptive families and many didn't even bother to tell their children they were adopted.

A woman during those times only had two choices--raise the child or place the child for adoption. Many young mothers placed babies thinking they would never have to share the story with anyone. Often young pregnant girls were sent to an Aunts home far away to have her baby so the people in her town would not know.

The closer it got to the early 70's the more issues of abortion came up. And those who were not in favor of abortion attempted to make placing a baby for adoption an attractive choice....There was a general attitude that a birthmother who placed her baby would feel the same reliefe that she might had she had an abortion. So the genral mood and attitude at that time was to make adoption the same kind of decision that abortion was.

This attitude was not only used with the birthmothers but with the general public. There was a huge fear that abortion would end all chance of adoptions. There would be no babies to adopt if abortion were made legal. So adoptive parents at that time were seeing themselves as saving a baby from abortion more then anything else. The 'feeling' of society pushed birthmothers into being the 'same' as a woman who aborted....and therefore birthmothers should have no more feelings about the baby they placed--no more then they might have had they had an abortion. Sometimes the babies birthdate or place of birth was changed just to insure there would never be a chance of future contact. And I am sure there were a number of birthmothers who would have chosen an abortion without some of these insuraities of privacy forever--this still happens today.

Adoptive families were not living in a society which made them consider the feelings of the birthmother. They didn't get any real info about the birthmother or her reasons for placing and they hardely ever actually met the birthmother so there really was not a face--name or personal contact to think about. Even people who adopted under different circumstances were part of the soceity at that time--so any contact they may have had would have been cut off as soon as possible. In the 60's and early 70's the biggest questions adoptive families asked themselves is IF they should tell their children they were even adopted.

Fast forward to the 80's and things begin to change. We discover that even with legal abortion there are still a number of babies being placed for adoption. While fewer that is for sure--but it has never gone away. And as a result of discovering that even with abortion there is a large percentage of birthmother who do actually choose to give birth and place thier babies--MAYBE our society has the worng attitude toward birthmothers!

Communication (internet) and being able to uncover our history became something more possible and more and more adults were looking for their birthfamilies. I remember when Opra first started she had huge reunion shows every now and then because it was RARE to reunite with your birthfamily! And everyone saw this--everyone embraced it and attitudes about adoption began to change. Open adoptions were starting and at first the general public was horrified at the idea....and time passed and attitudes continued to change and here we are today! Makes me wonder sometimes about what things will be like in another 30-40 years!

The point I am trying to make is that your amom adopted you during a different time. Everything she knew and believed at the time you were adopted has been changed. All the rules are different today I am sure it is very difficult for her to process everything that has changed....

If I were you I might try to approach your amom with an attitude of understanding things are different then they were when she was promised there would be no contact....You might try to have some open conversations about what she was told when she adopted you? What was her experience like? What was the process like back then?

She may not even understand her feelings or why it bothers her so much?

Anyway--I hope you are able to work past your feelings and make the best coice for your life. I do actually very much understand your desire to have your children meet your birthmother. I also have an aunt who adopted my cousin about the same time your were born. My cousin only recently reunited with her bithmother and my aunt had done very well--she tells me she just never even thought it would happen and the only time she has had a problem was when she heard her grandson call the birhtmother grandmother--she said it sort of felt like someone was on her turff. But the fact is even with my aunt the birthmother was simply a nameless faceless girl who wanted to place an unexpected child.....

In a lot of ways I feel the amoms were as much a vicitm of the societies attitudes as the adoptees. I think that they were not given the chance to understand why the birthmother placed--who she was and the she was a real woman much like they were. Can you imagine so desperately wanting a child and then having one given to you--without ever meeting the woman who gave that child birth? It was so sanitary back then. A big improvement over orpahanges but still completely without compassion for the birthmother--

We should be glad things have changed and hopefully we are making better choices today. I might just break the ice with your birthmother and talk about adoption in general and how it has changed. Maybe you could also suggest she visit this website.... maybe you could ask her what she thought about you considering adoption--you have a big family and why not add another? (JOKING sort of)

I feel her problems are really much less about YOU and far more about the unknowns. All these years she has lived without a personal connection to the mother who gave birth to you--it must actually be very hard to change that way of thinking.

[HappyMomAnna]

Originally posted by KaseyHamnerM.S.
That statement after your misscarraige—I would have ended it there.

I agree this statment is horrible.

People did not go to counselors in the 60's. The 70's only really crazy people went and then it was bacuse they actually had 97 different personalities. Counseling and dealing with our feelings and working through our problems is a relatively NEW concept.

Did your Amom have a misscarriage? Did she lose a child? Or was she simply not able to concieve?

I have found that the woman before fertility treatments who chose to adopt also in many cases carried a bitterness toward childbirth in general. I know that it was terribly difficult to have any level of compassion for my pregnancy with my former mother-in-law. When I wanted to 'talk' about being pregnant or having my babies she would only respond with "Well, I don't know anything about that stuff!"

I am sure that before fertility treatments there was a more profound feeling for a waoman who could not concieve. No hope or chance to even try. And I felt betterness and resentment toward me when I was able to get pregnant and have a baby--when she could not.

Your amom may have some real strong pain about a misscarriage--in those days they didn't talk about these things.

[kal]

HappyMomAnna, no my amom never was able to conceive a baby. She never got it when I was pregnant and how tired I was during the first 3 trimesters. Or when I would be in pre-term labor and trying to care for other small kids. She would just say the most insensitive things. I know she could never really know what it was like but at least when I say how tired I was she could have offered to help in some way. The comment about fixing myself so that would stop happening was just a real blow to me. I was so hurt, I swore I would never speak to her again. My mother in law called my amom a b*tch when she heard what she said to me. My mother in law also felt she was jealous of me being able to have babies so easily, or conceive so easily. That may be true but regardless, I guess she was somehow embarresed about me having so many children. When I was pregnant with my 4th child she said "how am I going to tell people about this baby I haven't even told anyone about baby #3 yet"
She judges the way my house looks and tells other family members. My house maynot be show quality but let me tell you for raising 6 children my house looks pretty darn good. The floors are always vacumed and the dishes done, meals are on the table. Maybe there are piles of paperwork on the counter or the coffee table but hey those are things I need to look through.

When I was younger I had gone to N.C. to visit someone and I just loved the area I went to. I wanted to move there. When I got back from my trip and made it known that I wanted to move she made it very clear that she felt it was the biggest mistake I would ever make. How could you think of moving away from here? On and on and on. Well, it worked. I dropped the idea.

To be honest, I am sure I did some things when I was younger that disappointed her. I know that she wanted me to go to college, something she never had the chance to do, and I chose to be a hairdresser instead. But as far as any big things I did as a kid, nothing major. I always conformed to what she wanted me to be. I never disrespected her. Know matter how rotten she was to me I never gave it back to her, I still don't.

Sorry, I am rambling on here. Just getting things off my chest I guess. I just want so badly to have my bmom come here and visit. But I know the guilt trip that would come along with that if I was to tell her (amom) about her. That is the main reason I have never told her we talk. She is very good at having people conform to what she wants them to do. Even my afather who was a very strong corporate man will back down to her. I think he has learned to keep the peace you must do it her way. I don't think I have ever seen anyone stand up to her. And I would be the last one. Maybe it has something to do with being adopted. Ya know, the one childhood experience I remember very well was when I was about 5 or so. She was mad at one of us kids for something and all she kept saying was "why did I ever get you kids!" I did have an adopted bother and sister too. But with words like those I guess maybe I was afraid of being given away again. Who knows, I am trying to sort through my feelings and figure out why I am afraid to stand up to her. What do I care if she is mad at me? I never measured up anyway. Thanks for listening. Sorry for rambling on so.

Kal,

As an adoptee, and one that has reunited, I agree with Lemon....your relationship with birtmom and amom are seperate. As a 38 y.o. your decision to have a rleationship with birthmom is yours and yours alone....no matter what your relationship was with amom. You have 7 children...are you using the same guilt trips your mom used...would you want your children to hide things that are very important to them..or would you want to be a part of the process for them.

It is your home, you can have anyone you want in your home. What is the hold she has over you? What is the worst that can happen if you have your birthmom over?

As an adult women to another adult women you need to tell amom that this is what you are doing....no, you don't want to hurt her but as an almost 40 year old, you need to make your own decisions! Then you need to conjure up the strenght to deal with the consquences.

If mom was as controlling as you say and as hurtful as you say, why are you continuing to let her control you. Parents should not attempt to control adult children..ever...and sometimes parents do that whether adoptive or not!! My grandparents did it with their daughters....my mom went along ,but my aunt rebelled.

although they were not hurtful but did attempt to control....I have a 21 y.o. son who lives at colledge, I understand he needs to make his own decisions and he is starting to make adult decisions that have nothing to do with me and may result in his moving at some point away from his family....I would like for him to be nearby...should I guilt him, attempt to control, of course not!! That would HURT HIM!! My point being we can not control or be controlled unless we allow it.

[kal]

My relationship with my kids is very open. My oldest is only 11 but I try to explain to him that I can't always be there, at school or at friends, to guide him to make the right decisions. But I know I have raised him to use manners and have good judgement. I know when something is wrong or bothering my kids. I just know them inside out. I always want my kids to be comfortable coming to me. Maybe and mostly because I didn't have that growing up.
Why do I still continue to have a relationship with her? I can't answer that. If I had my way, I would have cut it along time ago. I am a very forgiving person. I am someone who can forgive and forget many times over. Although, I am starting to hold resentments to the past few years of insults and hurtful words, I eventually move past it. I am not as quick to forget and am very guarded now with amom. The other thing is I speak to her when she calls, although, I don't let her into my/our personal family issues. I keep our conversations very genteral. Maybe with that being the case now I feel I don't want to let her into my life with my choice to see my birthmom. But I know one of my kids would mention it and she would eventually find out. She is just not someone I can approach about things very easily, never could.
We moved away from my home town almost 2 years ago. Within a month she was here for a week visit . She is a drinker and everynight at 5 o'clock on the dot she would get out the booze. My husband and I do not drink. When she drinks she changes her spots very quicly. SHe is even more difficult to be around. Very loud and angry at anything anyone says. Well, my husband and I wanted to take the kids and leave while she was here. Made us both uncomfortable in our own home. When it came time for her next visit I had to get the guts to tell her she could NOT drink in our home. Well, that went over like a lead balloon. She was furious that I told her she could not drink here. They did come and visit again but soon moved within an hour of our home. We had moved 10 hours away from her. I felt like I was never gonna get away from her! Even an hour ride is too close for me.
Anyway, I know I have every right to do what I want. I guess I just don't want to get her wrath about it. She can make people very miserable. All my siblings feel the same way. You just don't tell her anything. Except my younger sister who is very rebelious. She has a relationship with her mom and shoves it in amoms face. She just doesn't care if she can't handle it. I sometimes wish I had her attitude. She was always like that, even as a kid. Did the oppisite of what was expected of her. I was always the complying one. I just need to do it and if and when she finds out then deal with it. I don't think confronting her prior is a good idea. I will never hear the end of it. She will call everynight she is drunk and tell me how hurt she is. That is probably my biggest reason for not wanting to confide this info to her. Or maybe i will just tell my afather and let him decide when is a good time to tell her. I use to do that when I was younger and it worked out pretty good. Or at least it did for me, he had to take her wrath.

[PetersMom]

I am a mom by adoption and not an adoptee. I believe the rules of adult relationships apply whether one is adopted or not. That rule is if the adult person (mother or child) is destructive or dangerous they need to be cut off. Setting the boundary with your amom about her mouth needs to happen and it needs to be made clear that she is not to talk like that anymore or she will not be a part of your life anymore. If she were your biological mother I would say the same thing.

[kal]

I was thinking about this today. If this were someone else treating me this way I would break off the relationship. Through lots of thought today I have come to realize that I was so 'trained' as a child to not upset my mother both by my fathers lead and by trial and error on my part that I have lived my entire relationship with her in fear of what she thinks of me or how my emotions will make her react to me. I am not going to do that anymore. I am going to take a stand and be the adult with her that I am with everyone else. I am such a strong person, probably survival instincts learned as a child, that I am mad and disappointed at myself for allowing this to continue for all these years. I am sure the first few times of standing up to her will be hard to do but I am going to do it until she gets it or until I have to put a stop to the relationship.
I am just so thankful that I am in a great relationship with a wonderful husband who supports me in this. He has wanted me to break the her controlling cycle for years now. I think the words of you all have made it very clear that I don't owe her for adopting me. I don't her my self respect and I don't owe her my adult life to control. When this all comes out I will let everyone know how it goes. Thanks so much for your input. It has been a real eye opener for me. I am so glad I found you all.

Kal,

Keep us posted....wishing you lots of strength!!!

[PetersMom]

You're welcome. And you're right, you don't owe her anything for adopting you. You were not an unwanted child that was just tossed into her life to take care of as a burden. She was not a victim here. Obviously she wanted children or she would not have gone through the enormous amount of paperwork and subject herself to the process of adopting if she didn't want a child. Sometimes, even in non-adoption situations we don't get along with the parents we were given. It does, however, give us good life lessons in dealing with other people. She is your mother and she is to be honored as your mother, but that does not obligate you to take verbal abuse in order to honor her. I believe honoring her means to become a responsible adult who is in charge of their life and supporting their immediate family. What that responsibility also means is that you set boundaries that protect your family (your husband and children) from her mouth. If she cannot respect that, then contact with her must be minimal. I also know this to be true with non-adopted adult children. I had to tell my own mother (I am not adopted) to mind her own business when it came to my family and that I would handle it. I set that boundary and she managed to honor it. That doesn't mean she didn't slip up occasionally, but when I corrected her, she understood and we moved on.

As you may guess, I don't see this problem as an adoption issue as much as I see it as an adult child/parent relationship issue. Let me know how it turns out.

[Jackiejdajda]

HappyMomAnna wrote..There was a huge fear that abortion would end all chance of adoptions. There would be no babies to adopt if abortion were made legal. So adoptive parents at that time were seeing themselves as saving a baby from abortion more then anything else. The 'feeling' of society pushed birthmothers into being the 'same' as a woman who aborted....and therefore birthmothers should have no more feelings about the baby they placed--no more then they might have had they had an abortion.

You just taught me something.. I never realized this.. I never truly understood why abortion and adoption were connected in some peoples minds.... Now I do..

I corresponded with Bill Pierce at one time.. This was his attitude!!

Thank you.


Jackie

[true2u]

Hi Kal,

Hi, I'm new to the forum also. My husband and I are considering adoption, so I've been reading as many stories as possible to help with this decision. We have four children, my two daughter's are from my first marriage, and my two sons I have with my current husband of 16 years. My doctor told me I couldn't have any more children after my youngest was born, so I got my tubes tied, but we still have room in our hearts for more, so we're very excited about adopting.

Last night he and I were talking about the option of open vs closed adoption, and I told him that I don't think either one would suite me, that I wanted to adopt an orphan...which is why I'm writing you.

Your story really pulled at my heart because I'm afraid to loose my child to her/his natural mother. It sounds like you prefer your bmom over your amom, and that scares me so much.

I understand how you feel, but I wanted to ask how you might feel if a replacement came along for you? I know how this feels, because after my first husband and I got divorced, and he remarried, then I had to share my precious daughter's with another woman, and that's been very hard!! They live with their father now that they're older, and it's broken my heart that they've made this choice. I've been nothing but wonderful to both of them, but they wanted time with dad.

I know you can't relate to these feelings, but they are powerful feelings. I imagine that your amom loves you deeply, but may have trouble showing it. She choice to have you, and I'm sure went to great lengths to bring you into her life. Her strong reaction to the very idea of your bmom finding you tells me that I'm right. If I were your amom, I think I would feel the same way.

You have some tough choices, but ask yourself this question...how would you feel if someone came along and replaced you with your children?...you really need to consider that.

Your friend...take care, and may God direct your heart.