[Missy M]

Originally posted by sam_i_am_71801
schism, breakup, divorce, parting, rupture, split-up, disunion, disunity, division, shedding, apartheld, dichotomy, dispersal, partition, detatchment, diffluence, dirempeion, dissection, separatism, trichotomy, disjointure, disjunction,disrelation, dissolution, divorcement, segregation, dissociatiion, disconnection, sequestration...........................however we choose to cloak it.......................or what ever we want to call it........it is still..........what it is........separation...........It's the "pain" of the separation that is what is really the topic

[b]

Sam, you say it is about the pain involved in seperation, but IMO this thread was indeed about the terminology used to describe it. Colin was "offended" by a phrase; that WAS the original topic in his initial post; which takes me back to Sharon's post: What words would be less intense and less painful for adoptee's? The problem as I see it is that mere words can not convey what any of us ( b-parents,) went through at the start of our adoption journey. Our personal experience and how we veiw of it shapes our description of it, and each experience is unique....so just as there are different emotions, there are different expressions and phrases used to describe them. That doesn't make any one phrase better or worse, IMO just different.
I for one have a hard time saying pleasant and kind things about my experience because it wasn't. The reason for my last post was because as Sharon so wisely pointed out, maybe that writers saga was like that FOR HER. It wasn't my place to critisize her description of it. While I certainly won't knowingly cause discomfort for any one, I didn't lovingly seperate from my daughter.....Missy

[dl]

Missy M.: While I can understand apologizing for any insult to another poster, please don't apologize for your previous posts. I personally found them to be very honest and realistic, both from my personal point of view on "earlier years and behavior", as well as what I have found out about my own beginnings. I've actually been surprised at how many avoid taking personal responsibility for their behavior - not just some bmothers, but everyone. Thanks, for - as Dr. Phil says, GETTING REAL!!

I asked questions in previous posts: Exactly what is meant by "wording making an adoptee feel validated? What is meant by giving the child a voice?"

According to my dictionary, "validate" means "to make binding under the law, give legal force to, declare legally valid, , prove to be valid, confirm the validity of. Validity is defined as the state, quality or fact of being valid in law or in argument, proof, authority etc.". I really don't understand how this relates to an adoptee years after the adoption? Plus, no matter what anyone calls the time of birth/adoption, to me the child cannot possibly have "a voice" so what is meant by this?

Sorry to repeat my questions but I honestly don't get this at all.

[debsdone]

Wow! Reading that made me feel SO uncomfortable! So I sat here awhile and tried to figure out why. the best thing I could come up with is that it seems to suggest a type of intimacy that I haven't been "invited" to share with my birthmother.

Missy, good posts! Telling it like it is, is always a good thing in my book! Sometimes, taking the "romance" out of all this, is a good way to get through it intact! For me it is. If I had been looking for "romance" I would be a basket case now. But as it is, I am quite happy, even in my confusion, LOL Love, Debi

[sam_i_am_71801]

This is such an "personal" emotional pain that we all have and are experiencing and have in common. I know the pain all too well. Sometimes in our pain and confusion we tend to be ultra sensitive to even the smallest use or misuse of termanology. I hope that everyone will have their reunion day. Huggs........sammie

[bajohnson]

dlouis,
I don't know why no one else is answering your question. It is making me think at midnight, and I hate thinking in the first place and at this time of night its just barbaric.
Validation. The catch phrase of the ninety's. It's bandied about so much, that I believe it has lost some of it's importance and meaning. To me, concerning my adoption, it means confirming that I exist and existed. It means that my feelings of loss and pain, have a real place. It means that I'm ok to feel what I feel. In terms of a reunion situation, I believe it means to an adoptee, that the birthmom almost approve of the pain, etc that the adoptee feels at being "given away". To a birthmom, I'm not sure, as I don't hear them use it. There, not the best answer in the world, but an answer none the less.
Hugs to you dlouis!
Beth

[dl]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I thought my questions were pretty appropriate considering the topic of the thread and was surprised no one else had an opinion.

I do understand what you are saying and can understand that some adoptees may need validation from someone other than themselves. I think I drew a blank about this because I don't. Perhaps it's because I'm older than many of the adoptees here or maybe just my personality and the way I was raised. I've just never needed anyone else to make me feel okay. It's sure great when someone does say or do something that might confirm what I'm feeling, but it's not a need.

Thanks again. Did you have any thoughts on what is meant in the statements about "giving the child a voice"?

[angela dettloff]

I'm very sorry to all of you,
I guess I have a lot to learn. This is getting more painfull as the days go by. The comment " I'm the vessel" came from the amother mouth. I DID NOT WANT TO GIVE MY LITTLE GIRL TO SOMEONE ELSE TO RAISE I WANTED TO. The supid shelfish idiot I was married to did not want to raise someone eles child. Yes, I should have left his axx! I did not have any to help m, my family lived so far a way. I did not have any one to talk to. I just told my parents about their grandaughter. My family would have made me move back home with her. But if I would not have stayed with him then I would not have my other 2 beautiful daughters.
I was to be in an open adoption.

[Seeking_Answers]

I do not see anything wrong personally with "i gave you up" etc.

My Birthfather DID give me up, he gave me up, he gave up any rights to be my parent or have any involvement in my life when he relinquished all rights to me.

I would prefer him to speak from his heart, not to have to analyse everything he says to me for fear i would take it up the wrong way. I do not want to be tip toed around. If he wants to say he gave me up i personally would not have a problem with it, he is speaking the truth. He does not need to be gaurded with his words, i want the whole package, i want to see and hear the true him. Not picking words that i would prefer or avoiding ones that might offend. There's too much to be thinking about in reunion than how something is worded. I want the truth. JMHO.

I have heard
"I was not fit to be a father", "I was too selfish and immature", "I did not want responsibility". Does that mean i was not wanted? I'm not going to analyse that, i am going to accept it as the truth BACK THEN. How things WERE. It does not effect the here and now.

I'm sure theres things i say that might offend him. But what he hears comes from the heart. He hears the truth. He hears how i truly think and feel. He knows where he stands with me. He knows i'm NOT trying to offend but trying to express something. I am not going to nit pick my words, they are not meant to offend him, they are me telling it like it is.

I was given up. Yes i was. I have always know that. If i wasn't given up i would of been raised in a whole different place with a different family. I would not have my brothers/sisters/father. So yes i was given up. It does not hurt me to hear those words. I was given up over two decades ago..... I now have come back and he had the choice to give my existance in his life up again, therefore giving me up again. He didn't. He gave me up back then. Something he has had to live with every day since and a cartloads of regrets. VALIDATION . Validation to me is the same as what the above poster expressed. I need my hurt and disappointmented validation ONCE to move on. But that works both ways, i also had to validate the hurt and the guilt he had and then we MOVE ON.

The past is the past. I feel now i have been given a chance to know my birthfather of TODAY, not the young and scared one of back then. The past is gone, the present is good with him in it, the future seems brighter because he is in it, but i doubt we would be in each others future if we dwelled on the past. I do feel the past has to be covered, questions answered, but then it's a case of working on the here and now and a great future together. Terminology plays a very small role. In the great scheme of things it is insignificant IMO

I do not mean to offend anyone by this post

[Monica]

I like to hear people's opinions because the great thing about opinions are there are never a right or wrong answer. I am an adoptee and I personally do not like the saying "Since your birth mom gave you up." I guess my question is does a birthmom ever give her child up fully? I read postings from birth mothers all the time where they say they never let a day go by without them thinking of their child. I hear so many birth mother's never fully give up their child even if they are holding on hope for a reunion someday or to always have them in their hearts. Either way I don't see that saying to hold up because a birth mother doesn't ever fully give up their child nor does an adoptee ever forget about their past or where they came from. I guess instead I would love to hear people say, "When my birth mother loved me so much she wanted to give me a life that she was unable to give to me at the time." I know this doesn't apply to every situation out there, but to me it settles my heart.

Sincerely,
Monica

[LIR - NFL]

Thank you Missy M. I try to be honest and accept my part in being in the situation I was in too. I have had other bthmothers get angry at me for telling the truth.
Back when I placed my girl the saying "gave her up" was what we heard and said and what we felt we were doing. I never thought how it might sound to my girl someday.

[colin]

Once again...

Ramble on MISSY.

[Missy M]

Originally posted by colin
Once again...

Ramble on MISSY.

Colin....I just LUV YA'...Missy

[Missy M]

Originally posted by angela dettloff
I'm very sorry to all of you,
I guess I have a lot to learn. This is getting more painfull as the days go by. The comment " I'm the vessel" came from the amother mouth. I DID NOT WANT TO GIVE MY LITTLE GIRL TO SOMEONE ELSE TO RAISE I WANTED TO. The supid shelfish idiot I was married to did not want to raise someone eles child. Yes, I should have left his axx! I did not have any to help m, my family lived so far a way. I did not have any one to talk to. I just told my parents about their grandaughter. My family would have made me move back home with her. But if I would not have stayed with him then I would not have my other 2 beautiful daughters.
I was to be in an open adoption.

Angela...I am so sorry for your pain and please know that this is the proper place to let it go....You do not owe anyone an apology EXCEPT your self! You have a right to say whatever is in your heart and on your mind; and please know that you are not simply a vessel...you are a birthmother. I am so sorry for pointing to your post in my reply, but the phrase angered me. If I (or you) were only vessel's it wouldn't hurt so much. Take care...Missy

[Sharon]

Angela,
I agree with Missy! I can't believe an A-MOTHER told you that (that you were a vessel). I am truly sorry for your pain, and I'm glad you are beginning to have a chance to work through it. The pain may get worse before it gets better, but you've come to the right place for help, support, and understanding. Many here have been through what you've been through, and all of us are in various stages of accepance/ anger/ denial/ healing/ recovery (most days, I go back and forth between stages, lol).
If you ever need to talk things out or discuss your feelings, feel free to PM me or email me. I'll be glad to listen and offer support.
Sincerely, Sharon

PS Sorry Colin; let's get back to your topic now!
~ Shar

[angela dettloff]

Missy,
Thank you for your words. I have had all this bottled up for 18 years, I've been doing nothing but crying everyday. I 'm even having a hard time at work. I do'nt want to respond to the threads, I feel that I can learn more about my emotion and those of my dauughter if I just read and try to comprehend everyone eles emotions. Every one seems so wise.