[debsdone]

Hi Ivy. Gosh, I didn't mean to make it sound so terrible! Sure, abuse is terrible, but mine was not that severe. I point it out mostly to show that it isn't only "perfect" adoption situations that can produce well adjusted, pro adoption adults! You asked'

"I hope you have all received some kind of counseling to help you deal with this."

I have always been in some type of therapy. Because I always had so many questions about things. Plus, I wanted to be the best I could be, so I have always searched for more ways to do that. I didn't want to be like my parents, and I am not. But I needed help learning to parent, as I wasn't provided with very good role models! I love my parents, despite their weaknesses. They only knew what they were taught. And they didn't have the desire that I did to be better. I doubt they ever thought about it. to them, things just ARE. Thanks for your concern, but don't worry, I am good! Love, Debi

[Rayma]

I beleive I was the one you were talking to about having monsters for parents. I was never legaly adopted, there was no home study, nothing was done. My case is not the normal type of adult-child abuse. I'm the one with post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) from childhood abuse. My amom abused all of us, her much older 5 bio-childern and me). Some where already married by the time she got me. The worst abuse came from her retarded son who was a teenager when I was born. Which she alowed. She knew because I and dmy sister (her bio-child) told her and it was OK with her in fact when my sister told her what happened and that she needed to do something with him her mom beat her up with her fist and told her to go home and mind her own buissness. I saw and head everything. She allowed him to "run" the house. The only time he was punished was when he attacked her.

I didn't mean to scare anyone, I was asked in a PM about my abuse and I felt I should let everyone know. I'm sorry this was up setting for you. When I posted this site I was new to the internet (and still am) and I asummed that these of us who were abused could talk about it and the effect it has had on us. I guess I was nieve.

But while other adoptees were and are abused you can see how my situation was not the same as others. I have thought about sueing but my amom is dead and both of my other abusers are retarted and all they have is their SSI. I have even thought of sueing her other children, but all know something and none know much. All one of them knew was that we all got our "switchings". By them being so much older than me they were not there. All of them (except the retarded one ) got married young to get out of the house. Sueing would do no good.

I've compleated therapy and I'm on medication. You see people with PTSD are prone to commit suicide and mass murder. I tried to commit suicide many times and I'm gratful that I didn't succeed. The last time was in 1988 before therapy. Because I found God. But I have to take my meds everyday until the new system of things.

Please don't think of my situation when you think of your child, I'm sure being a loving mom you did the best you could to make sure your child had a good home. Maybe they cut off contact with you out of fear. Of what only they would know.

Take good care of yourself and don't make yourself sick with worry ( a stupid thing to say). If you have an open adoption you can got throw the courts for breach of contract.

I'm very sorry. And you were right my abusers were monsters.
rayma

Yes, Rayma, you are correct. My message was specifically directed to you and LoveBug. Re. your comment, "I thought I could talk about the abuse in this support group. I guess I was naive." I hope you don't think that I was attacking you in some way for talking about the abuse. I was trying to be sympathetic; maybe I didn't express myself clearly. When I said I was shocked and appalled, I didn't mean at YOU for talking about it, I meant I was appalled at the actions of the people who abused both of you. I would assume that a person seeking to adopt would do this because they wanted a child, not a punching bag...I guess I was the one who was naive. Of course it upsets me to hear stories like yours, especially since my child is living with an adoptive family with whom I have no contact. However, if these stories are true, and I believe they are, then I need to hear about them. Birthmothers have to be aware of things like this, we can't just bury our heads in the sand and be blind to what's going on in the world. If it helps ease your pain in any way to talk about your experiences, I will always be here to listen and lend support. However, I don't have any experience with abuse myself, and can't offer you advice on how to deal with it, only lend a sympathetic ear. I'm glad you've had the courage to speak out about what happened to you, and I and others who post here will be here to offer moral support and anything else you need. Sincerely, Ivy

[Rayma]

I didn't think you were attacking me. I just felt bad that you seeed to be hurt by what I said and I never wanted to hurt anyone.

I never though about bparents needing to know this kind of information, but you are right all bparents should know. And I would like it the fact that this does take place to be more widly known. I too believe that children should be raised by someone who loves them and will protect them. I think that there should be a way to place something in affect to protect adopted children from being placed in an abuseive inveriment, unfortionitly some will always fall through the cracks. I am also conerned about bio-childern being abused, but there is no way to control who will have childern.

Thank you for your suport. I need to talk about it with someome. I know talking about it helps me (talking is part of the theropy for PTSD) and I think I will help others who have been abused to talk. My rage is from the PTSD, my hurt is from being abused, and the whole in my heart is from being adopted.

Thank you, thank you, thank yoou!!!
rayma

[Rayma]

reunitedmom3,

Thank you for your understandin. I am so sorry that your daughter was abused. I hope she is getting the help she needs. I'm sure being reunited can be a help to both of you. But she needs to really understand that you didn't know that was a posiblility for her to be abused.

I know a lot of may post may sound angry, and I am about certain things, but I want to educate people about what can happen.

God bless you and your daughter.
rayma

[dl]

Although I will probably get "jumped on" with you, I do agree with your post "I believe that abortion and adoption should not be used as birth control. Don't have sex with anyone but your marriage partner and use b.c. and a condom with a spermizide if you don't want to have a baby and raise it yourself."

There is a continuous debate about the issue of pro choice/abortion or adoption. I don't think it should be limited to just those two choices. There is, in many situations, another "choice" as you point out, which is birth control. Yes, "accidents" happen and some are victims of violent crimes. Those situations have totally different circumstances. I have seen posters state that birth control was not used for "personal reasons" and multiple pregnancies are the result. Then those same posters are upset with adoption, as for whatever reason they are unable to keep any of their babies. There is no "one size fits all" answer, but birth control should, in my opinion, be considered part of "the choice".

I certainly am not attemtping to minimize anyones pain. I just don't understand why some repeatedly put themselves in such a painful situation.

[dl]

"This mentality may have been practical in the past, when a female could expect that there would always be some man to take care of her (first her father, then her husband) but those days are long past, and in these modern times people need to teach their daughters to be strong, strong enough to take care of themselves and their children, with or without the help of a man."

I'm curious. What "past" are you referring to? I came of age in the 60's and this passive attitude was not prevalent then. I was taught, as a woman, to be strong and to respect and protect myself and to take care of myself. I personally think we have progressed even more since then, but that was the reality I was exposed to in the 1960's.

[dl]

Yes, the 60's were the beginning of change, and one of the biggest changes was the availability of reliable birth control. The 60's have been named the "sexual revolution". I don't think any more sex was happening in the 60's than happened in the previous decades. Women simply had the choice to use reliable birth control, if they chose. Just as women today have that same choice. When I posted "I came of age in the 60's and this passive attitude was not prevalent then. I was taught, as a woman, to be strong and to respect and protect myself and to take care of myself", I was not at all referring to "protect myself from my own flesh and blood", but was referring to being strong and responsible, to respect myself and if I choose to have sex, to protect myself from an unplanned pregnancy. This was the common attitude among the women I knew at that time in the 60's. We were, as you say, "still under our parent's influence", but we were also capable of making a responsible choice.

[Rayma]

Thank you, I see that someone does agree that their are other choises. But how do we (people who beleive this way) get the word out? Of, course I'm not talking about rape or insest if the bmom can't handle raising the child it should be put up for adoption. I did not say abortion because of my own beleifs. But I would never try to stop someone form gitting an abortion or putting their child up for adoption ( unless its MY grandchild) then I would take it. But if a person asks me my appion, I would reason with that person, but I would reconize that the choice was theirs.

I just belielve that the Bible is correct and that do to my pesonnal experience that adoption is not always agood thing. If a child must be adopted, why not keep it in the family? With no secrets, no "stay out of our lives" attitute and the child should know who the bmom is and bdad (if known) and have a realationship with the bmom.

I'm not backing out of not wanting adoption to be used as birth control, but as you said acidents do happen. Parents die, etc...

rayma

[debsdone]

In an attempt to get this thread back to the topic, I will address the suggestions that adoptees experience more abuse than non-adoptees with a repeat of an earlier post by Lady Jubilee.



"Statistically speaking, there are fewer allegations of abuse in adoptive families and other types of families. See http://www.geocities.com/largefamilies2001/study.html .

So, while child abuse should NEVER happen--no matter how the family is formed--, it isn't true that families formed through adoption are more likely to experience abuse."



As an adoptee who has indeed suffered abuse, I find it insulting and degrading to have non-adoptees continue to assert that the statistics that support their anti-adoption stance are more applicable than the statistics that do not support the claims.. I do not believe that adoptees are any more deserving of stereo typing than any other triad members.
Debi

[Rayma]

I was never tought anything about sex or responcablity, so I learned the hard way. But I did get on b.c. before I became sexually active (a friend of mine was using abortion as b.c.) while at that time I saw nothing wrong with abortion, I wonted to be safe. When I was 21 I got pregnant even tho I was on b.c. The doctor did not give me all the facts about using b.c. I did not want a baby, but I knew abortion was not for me and after my experience with being an adoptee I would never give a child of mine up. So I did the best I could to raise him. He is now a well adjusted adult male who is (to my knowadge) being responcable. I know he does not have any chilren and is in no hurry to get married. Unfortionitly, I do beleive he is sexauly active. But he was taught to be responceable for his actions.

[Rayma]

I am an adoptee, and I did concede that I didn't have all the facts. My anti-adoption beleifs are that adoption should not be used as a form of birth control. In other words people should be more responcable...

Don't you beleive that peole should be responsable for their actions?

Thanks for letting me clear that up.

[dl]

Sorry this thread seems to have gone so off topic. Several posts that took it off topic have been removed. My posts were in response to those posts.
Hope this clears up any confusion regarding the lack of flow in the posts as they now read.

[Rayma]

That's OK.
I didn't know that some of the post had been removed eighter. Thanks for telling me.
I don't know why or how they were removed. Does anyone know? If so please tell me.

[debsdone]

Rayma, if someone reports a post that they feel is offensive, a moderator looks at it and decides if it should be removed. They general don't say anything, they just remove it. Love, Debi